Sub Panel

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  #1  
Old 07-12-06, 07:30 AM
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Sub Panel

I have a 30amp sub panel in the garage. Can I run all of the following off it? (4 breakers)
Washer
Gas Dryer
FAU
Garage Lights
Outlets (No Large Stationary tools)

Thanks, Brian
 
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Old 07-13-06, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Handyone
FAU
I usually google stuff I don't understand, but I am guessing you're not talking about Florida Atlantic University or a guy named Fau. What is an FAU?

Also did you check your nameplates on the appliances? Besides the FAU I would guess the other items would be OK.
 
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Old 07-13-06, 02:32 PM
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Is this a 30 amp 240 volt sub panel, or a 30 amp 120 volt sub panel?

What is a FAU?

Which of these loads do you intend to run at the same time?

What do you intend to plug into the receptacles?

What is the total wattage of the lights?
 
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Old 07-13-06, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by racraft
Is this a 30 amp 240 volt sub panel, or a 30 amp 120 volt sub panel?

What is a FAU?

Which of these loads do you intend to run at the same time?

What do you intend to plug into the receptacles?

What is the total wattage of the lights?
Bob,

Well, all the items could be running at the same time. That's why I asked...

**FAU is the gas furnace (forced air unit)

Washer/Gas Dryer and lights will definately run at same time. Lights= 320 watts

Receptacles at most will have occasional shop vac, portable power tools.

**Furnace could go on circuit at main panel if necessary.

Finally, I assume it is a 240 volt 30 amp sub panel. (even tho I'm using 120 volt circuits at the sub) At the main panel, it has 2 30 amp breakers with 10/3 w/g running to the sub panel.

Thanks, Brian
 
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Old 07-13-06, 07:31 PM
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You should be fine.

I would run ALL 20 amp circuits.
 
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Old 07-15-06, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by racraft
You should be fine.

I would run ALL 20 amp circuits.

Is that because (I am told) no 30-amp receptacles exist??
 
  #7  
Old 07-16-06, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Pipsisiwah
Is that because (I am told) no 30-amp receptacles exist??
30A receps exist; see link below. But they would typically require at minimum 10 AWG.

Are you talking about running 30A at 120V? If that's the case, it would be dangerous to replace (for example) a 120V saw's NEMA 5-15P with a NEMA 6-30P, because the corresponding 6-30R is typically wired for 240V. I don't think there is a 5-30R or a 5-30P.

http://www.evenheat-kiln.com/technic...ept/recept.htm
 
  #8  
Old 07-16-06, 05:22 AM
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I suggest to run 20 amp circuits because 20 amp circuits can carry one third more power than 20 amp circuits.

Some people when installing new circuits run 15 amp circuits. They do this usually out of ignorance. While it is true that 14 gage wire costs less than 12 gage wire, and that 14 gage wire is easier to work with, I belioeve that the benefits of a 20 amp circuit are more important.

When discussing circuits for the loads you mention, 30 amp does not enter the picture at all. In a residence, general purpose circuits are not 30 amp. They are either 15 or 20 amp. 30 amp circuits are for specific needs, and you have not identified any.
 
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Old 07-16-06, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by racraft
I suggest to run 20 amp circuits because 20 amp circuits can carry one third more power than 20 amp circuits.

Some people when installing new circuits run 15 amp circuits. They do this usually out of ignorance. While it is true that 14 gage wire costs less than 12 gage wire, and that 14 gage wire is easier to work with, I belioeve that the benefits of a 20 amp circuit are more important.
Hmm...not so sure I would call it an "Ignorance" thing, as a CURRENT electrical contractor we run 14/2 all the time for general use circuits. It really is all in the level of experience the person has that is laying the circuits out really.

To lay a blanket statement that it is "Ignorant" is not the choice of words I would use personally.

The cost is also a factor that MUST be considered if wiring a house, general use is general use....most bedrooms and so on will not have excessive demands....if the house is large like the many 4,000 and 5,000 sq ft ones I have done.....correctly placed "Remote Distribution Panels" serve the need quite fine.

Really ends up being the choice for the buyer to choose or the builder, I do not have a problem with running 14/2 in a house...if you design the layout right....but again I may be "Ignorant" but my license's say otherwise...
 
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Old 07-16-06, 09:48 AM
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[QUOTE]
Originally Posted by ArgMeMatey
I don't think there is a 5-30R or a 5-30P.
QUOTE]
FYI:

NEMA 5-30R
 
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Old 07-16-06, 09:56 AM
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I don't beleive the phrase "out of ignorance" was intended as a disrespect. I read it in the context of less knowledgable people not understanding the workings of an electrical system and their true needs.
 
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Old 07-16-06, 09:59 AM
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lol....oh well.....I as a EC don't plan to stop the use of it...
 
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Old 07-16-06, 10:29 AM
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Nor should you. We all know they are out there.
 
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Old 07-16-06, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by nap
I was wrong! Thanks for the link and correction.
 
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Old 07-16-06, 05:05 PM
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My comment was NOT directed at people who know what they are doing and install a 15 amp circuit for a specific reason, even lighting. It was directed mainly at do-it-yourselfers who install a 15 amp circuit and then complain when their space heaters (or whatever) trip the breaker.

However, I disagree with the statement that general use circuits get minimal use. Even if a homeowner never plans on a computer upstairs, or doesn't like air conditioning and never plans on a window air conditioner, they may change their mind or, perhaps more likely, the next owner of the house may change their mind.

I believe it is foolhardy to install 15 amp circuits for anything except specific loads. I am kicking myself because I didn't catch that the electrician who wired my basement only used 15 amp circuits.
 
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Old 07-16-06, 06:55 PM
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less knowledgable people not understanding the workings of an electrical system and their true needs.

Proper planning can eliminate alot of over Kill and cost. STOP...THINK.. THen act.
(I should probably take my own advice) (few would doubt that, No?)
 
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Old 07-17-06, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by racraft
My comment was NOT directed at people who know what they are doing and install a 15 amp circuit for a specific reason, even lighting. It was directed mainly at do-it-yourselfers who install a 15 amp circuit and then complain when their space heaters (or whatever) trip the breaker.

However, I disagree with the statement that general use circuits get minimal use. Even if a homeowner never plans on a computer upstairs, or doesn't like air conditioning and never plans on a window air conditioner, they may change their mind or, perhaps more likely, the next owner of the house may change their mind.

I believe it is foolhardy to install 15 amp circuits for anything except specific loads. I am kicking myself because I didn't catch that the electrician who wired my basement only used 15 amp circuits.
I happen to disagree, but to all his own.... Rac are you an electrical contractor?

If a GOOD electrical contractor knows the NEC, the NEC clearly allows the use of the 15A wiring for general use receptacles and lighting and nothing " Ignorant" about that.

Assuming in a typical electrical installation that someone will placed a window unit on a house that is newly being wired is not something to take into account, if it is dedicated and clearly intended for its US then it will get a dedicated 20A circuit to it.

While it is possible for the NEXT person to change their mind, the original owner or builder has the initial intent and that is what the dwelling is wired for.

Provided we know that in large homes you will come out cheaper yet STILL effective in running lets say like I do ALOT...(2) 200A panels ( 400A Service ) we also have 1-2 "remote panels" inside the house to reduce the effects of VD on the circuits...this is calculated out and meets all requirements for the NEC.

Now.....as for a DIYer doing their own home, if they choose to run 14/2 or 12/2...that is their choice...both of which are accepted....and while we are talking about a difference of 12A Max on 14/2 and 16A max on 12/2.....

So...if it is an OLDer home.....run 12-2 to any circuit because their is a chance the home does not have Central AC...and window unit may be added...yep...smart choice...but as a blanket statement to run 12/2 instead of 14/2.....in a general wiring statement.....the NEC does not demand it and if properly done is not a problem...

I am also sure we all know that the NEC does not mandate VD%'s as well.....so that is not the position...
 
  #18  
Old 07-17-06, 11:15 AM
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Paul,

I predict that eventually 20 amp circuits will become the requirement for general purpose circuits. We already have the beginning of this with them required for kitchens, bathrooms, and laundry. Maybe the rule will first apply only to receptacles, or maybe it will just apply for all general purpose circuits, but I do think it will eventually apply.

One only has to look at the commonly used electrical devices to see why this is happening. Things like electric frying pans, coffee makers, counter top microwave ovens and the countless other kitchen appliances drove the requirement for kitchens. Hair dryers and curling irons drive the requirement for bathrooms. For general purpose circuits we now have computers, plasma televisions and other home theater equipment, not to mention the vacuum cleaner that still gets moced around and plugged in.

Yes, 15 amp general purpose circuits are legal. Yes they are cheaper. Other than to save money and other than to make it easier to install (less box fill, easier to work with), they donít make sense for a general purpose circuit. I have no problem with them for specific uses, or for lighting.

By all means, go ahead and install 15 amp circuits (where legal) if you need to get a job or if the contractor demands it. But please, if nothing else than for the sake of the ignorant homeowners who donít know better, quote and install 20 amp circuits for their receptacles (and educate them, why this is better for them) every time you have the chance.
 
  #19  
Old 07-17-06, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by racraft
if nothing else than for the sake of the ignorant homeowners who donít know better, quote and install 20 amp circuits for their receptacles (and educate them, why this is better for them) every time you have the chance.
AKA upselling. Hard to do when the customer is fixated on the bottom line, but maybe worth figuring it as an option when you do a remodeling job.

Also from the DIYer perspective if you use all 20A circuits you only need to buy 12 AWG instead of trying to guess how much 14 AWG vs. 12 AWG you'll need. As a contractor you'll use any extra wire by next week, but as a homeowner it's just going to gather dust in the basement. You'll still be able to do your math figuring for 12/2 vs. 12/3 and so on.
 
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