Kitchen Small Appliance circuits

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  #1  
Old 07-14-06, 09:17 AM
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Kitchen Small Appliance circuits

Assume a Galley Kitchen 8-9 feet in length.

One wall has 27" Countertop-36" Sink-48" Countertop
Opposite Wall has Refrig-18" Countertop-30" Range-18" Countertop

Since there is no uninterrupted countertop more than 4 feet in length, so we only need 4 duplex outlets for small appliances (1 per each countertop section.

Does it really make any difference which 2 are on one circuit and which 2 are on the opposite circuit? It's really hard to predict what will be used at each location, but I would expect the coffee maker and probably a blender adjacent to the sink and the toaster adjacent to the range. In such a small kitchen, it's difficult to imagine more than 2 small appliances in use at any one time, but with this configuration, I would prefer a separate circuit for each wall rather than split them between the two walls.
 
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Old 07-14-06, 09:29 AM
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You can split the small appliance circuits any way you want.

However, I do not recommend your design. I would put two duplex receptacles at each location, one from each circuit. This is easily wired utilizing 12-3 or 12-2-2 from the panel to the GFCI receptacles and then 12-2-2 from there on.
 
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Old 07-15-06, 06:01 PM
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Around here, 12-2-2 can only be had by the full roll, not by the foot (I tried SEVERAL suppliers). I would consider using 12-3wg the whole way and use all GFCI recepticals wired on the line side only.
 
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Old 07-15-06, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by chirkware
Around here, 12-2-2 can only be had by the full roll, not by the foot (I tried SEVERAL suppliers). I would consider using 12-3wg the whole way and use all GFCI recepticals wired on the line side only.

Why is it then that 12/3 is more available? Can this be bought by the foot?
Full roll=250'?
Thats alot cheaper and more usefull than by the foot.
Kitchen outlets should be staggerd, Think about it side by side outlets, you can meet code but overload the ckt.
 
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Old 07-16-06, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by chirkware
Around here, 12-2-2 can only be had by the full roll, not by the foot (I tried SEVERAL suppliers). I would consider using 12-3wg the whole way and use all GFCI recepticals wired on the line side only.
Personally...overkill.........just use 12-2 w/G and hit your fridge receptacle first...then your first on the counter and place the GFCI receptacle in the first counter recept. and balance it out from their...again doing otherwise in my opinion is overkill.

Lets not make it more complicated than it is.....on the counter unless you live in a MANSION should not be a real issue....since you have a recept every 4'...just how many do you plan on having?

Just go halfway and then bring in a new (2nd) counter top circuit and you will be fine.
 
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Old 07-18-06, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ElectricalMan
Personally...overkill.........just use 12-2 w/G and hit your fridge receptacle first...then your first on the counter and place the GFCI receptacle in the first counter recept. and balance it out from their...again doing otherwise in my opinion is overkill.

Lets not make it more complicated than it is.....on the counter unless you live in a MANSION should not be a real issue....since you have a recept every 4'...just how many do you plan on having?

Just go halfway and then bring in a new (2nd) counter top circuit and you will be fine.
Thanks for your comments.

I will install:

20 amp circuit on Refrig Wall serving:
Refrigerator, Gas Range (for clock, etc), 2-GFCI Countertop Outlets (1 GFCI with downstream wiring for second outlet).

20 amp circuit for the MW/Hood Combination Unit

20 amp circuit on DW wall for 2-GFCI Countertop Outlets (1 GFCI with downstream wiring for second outlet).

20 amp circuit for DW and Disposal. I was considering 2 separate circuits here but the loads are small enough and the Bldg Dept says it's not necessary.

15 amp circuit for lighting.
 
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Old 07-18-06, 08:25 AM
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It's a very interesting set of answers.

All I asked was about distribution of 4 duplex outlets on 2 countertop circuits.

The first answer suggested doubling the amount of outlets and alternating each adjacent outlet to the opposite circuit. Using this configuration you could plug in 32 small appliances - very crowded countertops (only 18 square feet). This answer also addressed the wire type/size.

This generated 2 more answers related to the wire.

The final answer IMO basically confirmed my initial thoughts that how the countertop outlets are split between the circuits in such a small kitchen doesn't really matter.

 
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Old 07-18-06, 09:24 AM
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You are, of course, free to do what you want, as long as you follow code.

Just don't plan on using the counter top on the same circuit as the refrigerator for more than one significant appliance if the refrigerator is running.

Sticking with your plan you will have to be careful what you do, or you will trip a breaker.

Following some of the other plans this wouldn't be an issue.

Personally, I prefer to have two circuits serving any counter top space upon which you can physically place and use more than one appliance. Before the kitchen was remodeled, the single circuit would trip on an almost regular basis.
 
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Old 07-18-06, 10:13 AM
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Exactly what sort of major countertop appliance do you think would cause a 20 amp breaker to trip with a 22 cu.ft. refrigerator on that circuit?

The MW is on a separate circuit, so that couldn't be it.

If I calculate the loads for small appliances such as toasters, toaster ovens, blenders, coffee makers, food processors, carving knives, etc. I really can't find any that would cause the circuit to be overloaded. Even 2 at the same time wouldn't do it.

Since there are only 2 18" countertops on this wall with the refrigerator and the gas range, it's going to be almost impossible to have more than a toaster and a carving knife in use at the same time.

I know you think this is a problem, but if you actually look at the loads involved and the work space you will find it's _not_.
 
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Old 07-18-06, 10:27 AM
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The compressor on refrigerator has a high current draw when it starts. Add that to say an electric frying pan or electric griddle and a coffeemaker that is on (brewing AND heating the pot) and you will likely have a problem. This is the exact scenario I had, and it did trip a 20 amp breaker.
 
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Old 07-18-06, 10:36 AM
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I would never put a coffee maker on the counter across the kitchen from the sink. Particularly when there is only 18" of counterspace adjacent to a gas range.

The kitchen I described specifically is of a configuration that virtually demands that the small appliance circuits be divided so that one is on one wall and the other on the opposite wall for exactly the scenario that you describe.

But, since you insist, I'll put the refrig and range clock on a separate 15 amp circuit.
 
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Old 07-18-06, 11:06 AM
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I don't insist on anything.

Why on earth would you put a refrigerator on a 15 amp circuit? Be smart, make it a 20 amp circuit.
 
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Old 07-18-06, 11:40 AM
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O.K., OverKill it is.

Really, if we continue this the natural conclusion is that regardless of the size of a kitchen, each and every appliance will be on a separate 20 amp circuit (except those needing 30 amps or more such as an electric range). Even the duplex countertop outlets would have each individual outlet on a separate 20 amp circuit (cut the hot buss just like you would on a duplex outlet that has one half switched). This way, it would be virtually impossible to blow a breaker unless you had an individual appliance of more than 2400 watts.

BTW, the rating on my refrigerator is only 7.83 amps (full load).

Do you have a lot of stock in GE?
 
  #14  
Old 07-18-06, 11:48 AM
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I recommend a 20 amp circuit for your refrigerator.

I recommend a 20 amp circuit for your clock and gas oven. You could put these with the refrigerator if you wish.

I recommend a 20 amp circuit for your microwave hood.

I recommend one or two 20 amp circuits for your dishwasher and disposal. Personally I would run two now, even if you only use one.

I recommend two 20 amp circuits for your counter top areas. I recommend that you stagger the receptacles so that each counter top area is served by each circuit.
 
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Old 07-18-06, 12:31 PM
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Hi Bob,

Don't blow a fuse - but some of your recommendations are just code requirements, others are excessive and others don't make logical sense. Mainly, your suggestion of alternating outlets on the countertops between the 2 circuits creates a problem in that it would be easy to have several high draw appliances plugged into the same circuit but on opposite sides of the room.

This is IMO an illogical solution for this particular kitchen - it's not a code requirement and I really like my solution. Fortunately, I can follow my own recommendations.

 
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