Wiring Doerr/Emerson 1/2 HP 120 V Motor

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  #1  
Old 07-26-06, 06:08 AM
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Wiring Doerr 1/2 HP Motor and Square D Reverse Switch

Hi Group,

The motor is for a marine winch. It will have a reverse switch and a remote on/off switch.

Can someone please help me figgure out how to wire it up?

A JPG of the of the motors' lable showing the connections will be emailed upon request.

Thanks in advance,

Randoob
 

Last edited by Randoob; 08-06-06 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 07-26-06, 05:10 PM
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You could post a jpg of the connections on a site like photobucket or others so we all could see it.
 
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Old 07-26-06, 09:25 PM
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If it has P1/P2/T2/T3/T4/T5/T8, I can help.

It will help to know more about the control, and what voltage you will be running it on/
 
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Old 07-27-06, 07:50 AM
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Hi Chandler and Clasicsat.

Thanks for responding. I'll be using "Low Voltage" (120V). See JPG at:

http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l154/randymcdermott/
 

Last edited by Randoob; 07-27-06 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 07-27-06, 02:02 PM
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reversing connections

A single-phase motor has a "Start" winding(s) and a "Run" windings(s).

Changing the direction of rotation is effected by changing the connection of the "Start" winding to the "Run" winding. The 2 leads to the "Start" winding are "S1" & "S2" and the 2 leads to the "Run" winding are "R1" & "R2"

With "L1" & "L2" as the two 120 volts Line-leads, then a "L1"-"S1"-"R1" & "L2"-"S2"-"R2" connection will give, say, CW rotation.

To reverse to CCW rotation "S2" is connected to "L1" & "R1" and "S1" is connected to "L2" & "R2".

You will have to extend 4 leads--- 2 "Start" and 2 "Run"--- from the internal motor-connections to double-pole double-throw reversing switch.Both the "Start" windings and the "Run" windings must each be connected for 120 volt operation.

I suggest you locate a motor repair shop for "expert" advise.

Good Luck, & Learn & Enjoy from the Experience!!!!
 
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Old 07-27-06, 02:21 PM
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Thanks for the info Pattbaa but wiring is not my forte. I'm kind of hoping to see a schematic.

Randy
 
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Old 07-31-06, 08:53 AM
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For anyone interested,

I'm still working on this one. The winch is quite old and it looks like a replacement would be about $700 CDN. The drive shaft had a new keyway cut in it and the unit itself has been re-painted "Army Green" (if there is such a color). The main bearings for the winch shaft are babbited (quite rare these days).

I managed to figure out the motor wiring (cudos to PATTBAA) but the reverse switch has been a problem so far. I bought one from Princess Auto, the only one they had in stock with 12 connection points and no instructions with it.

This week end was spent with a multi tester trying to figure it out.

I'm going to another electrical supply store this afternoon to get another switch. Hopefully that one will have instructions as to where to connect.

Thanks to Chandler for pointing out PhotoBucket. That is really easy to use!

Another update comming soon.
Randy
 
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Old 07-31-06, 03:13 PM
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can you figure out the switch?


how many positions does the switch have?
check continuity between each contact and every other contact in every position.



All in all the control wiring is quite simple. It just depends upon what you have or can get as to how to wire it.

Also, where is the control going to be in relation to the motor.

The "run" button should be a momentary switch and then you can have a reversing switch (2 pole double throw as PATTBAA posted earlier). If you have a 3 position 3 pole momentary switch, you can do it all in one switch. If not, you will need a separate directional switch and the momentary "run" switch.

I am not sure as to the switch that interchanges the lead connections but the power switch would need to be rated for the purpose (hp rated. in your case 1/2 hp at 120 volt minimum)
 

Last edited by nap; 07-31-06 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 07-31-06, 07:28 PM
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To Clarify what PatBaa said, with respect ro the Doerr motor (which I am intimately familiar with as I care and feed at least 4 of them and their likenesses of other makes.)

S1&S2 are T5 and T8 on the Doerr motor
The run windings are
T1 (fixed to the overload protector) and T2 are Run 1
T3 and T4 are R2.

For low voltage, the odds connect together, and the evens connect together. P2 is where T3 and one start lead connects for Low voltage mode. T2, T4, and the other start lead to power neutral. Hot goes to P1.

That said, to wire it to a rotarty reversing switch (which I assume is what you are using). What I am familiar with are have round cans with a shaft out the end, and a handle on the shaft. Some can be configured to spring return to off, or latch onto a direction.

You will need to run Hot (P1), Protected Power (P2&T3), T5, T8, Neutral (T2&T4), and frame ground from the motor to the control box (reversing switch).

There should be one contact that closes in both forward and reverse mode. Power connects to one side, the other side to P1 on the motor.


The other contact would be three rows, and cross each input terminal with each output terminal. The center row should connect to T5 and T8 each, and either end to Protected power (P2), and Neutral. At least that is going by the rotary reversers I wired.
 
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Old 07-31-06, 08:36 PM
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Hey Nap and clasicsat:

See Reversing Switch pictures at:

http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l154/randymcdermott/

3 connections on the right, 3 on the left and 6 on the bottom

I havn't figgured it out yet.

Thanks for your patience guys. I'm afraid I'm a bit of a dolt when it comes to understanding a verbal explanation of how to do this. If somebody could draw this up for me showing what wires go where I could do it in 5 minutes.

Incidently I found a drum switch at another electrical store for the low-low price of $487.00 <screech!!>

Randy
 
  #11  
Old 07-31-06, 09:07 PM
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Is that a momentary switch or does it stay in the position you put it in?

Make a quick check but I would assume that the 6 terms on the bottom correlate to a term on the same side but above it and make connection when turned the direction of the upper terminals.
 
  #12  
Old 08-01-06, 08:29 AM
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I'm no motor expert but I did find this researching your post. Maybe this will help getting on the right page with what you need to do. Diagrams for 110 volt forward/reversing drum switch similar to yours are about half way into the article.

http://www.owwm.com/files/PDF/FAQ/ElectricMotors.pdf
 
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Old 08-01-06, 11:17 AM
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Two 4-pole contactors, each controlled by a momentary-contact push-button, is a possible solution,

With the two 4-pole contactors mounted side-by-side, there is a "Left" (L) contactor and "Right" (R) contactor. each contactor has 4 "Top"Line terminals and 4 "Bottom" load-terminals.

For BOTH the L and R contactors, the identification of the Line terminals, Left-to-Right ,is---- L1---L2---- L1--- L2

The indenfification of the Load terminals of the L contactor, Left-to-Right, is -- R1--R2--- S1-- S2

The identification of the Load terminals of the R contactor, Left-to-Right, is-- R1---R2--- S2---S1

With R1 & R2 = the 2 leads from the "Run" winding, we note that both the L and R contactors will switch L1 to R1 and L2 to R2

With S1 and S2 = the 2 leads from the "Start" winding, the L contactor will switch L1 to S1 and L2 to S2.

The R contactor connection reverses the Start winding connection to the Line terminals by switching L1 to S2 and L2 to S1.

The advantage to push-button operation is the "dead-man" saftey feature-- the winch will operate only when someone is pushing a button.
 
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Old 08-01-06, 11:36 AM
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Wiring the motor is no problem. Wiring the switch to it, however, is. Any chance you can find a wiring code for the switch you have pictured?
 
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Old 08-01-06, 01:48 PM
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Hey guys:

It's been a hectic day at work. Sorry to keep you waiting.

Nap: the switch isn't momentary.

Roger: Thanks for the link. I understand the concept but without instructions for the switch (ie; a schematic) it's hard to know what is going on.

An electrician is in here today to do another job in our shop.

Initially he is stumped too. He's going to take the motor and switch home with him tonight to figure it out.

PATTBAA:

Sounds good but in light of the fact that my boat house is not exactly level I have to push the boat a bit to get it to go out and hold it from running into the back of the boathouse when it's coming in. "Dead man" is no option.

mdtaylor:

Right on. I've been up and down the internet looking for info on the switch. It's a Power Fist (Princess Autos' brand name) Electric Motor Reversing Switch Part Number 8000790. Rated up to 1 HP Dual voltage 110/220V 15A single phase.

That's all I know except it's starting to annoy (spelled a lot differently than it sounds) me!

I can't believe you guys are still with me on this. I really do appreciate the effort all of you are putting into it!

Hopefully the electrician will get it done tonight.

Randy
 
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Old 08-01-06, 03:02 PM
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It is actually a simple hook up. If your electrician cannot get it going, check the switch for the contact situation as I posted earlier. I wouldn't want to tie together a few wrong leads if the switch is different than I believe it to be.

What I suspect the switch will do is this:

if you turn the switch to the right, the 3 terminals on the bottom right will make with the 3 terminals on the right side with each one connecting to the terminal directly above it.

The same for the left turn and left side.

If this is how the switch functions, it is a piece of cake.

If it is different, I would need to reconfigure the schematic I have already drawn.


It looks like you will need 6 control/power wires and one ground wire from the motor to the switch.



Let us know if you need more assistance. Those of us without lives (I am reffering to me) will be here with the answer.
 
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Old 08-01-06, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Randoob
Hi Group,

The motor is for a marine winch. It will have a reverse switch and a remote on/off switch.

Can someone please help me figgure out how to wire it up?

A JPG of the of the motors' lable showing the connections will be emailed upon request.

Thanks in advance,

Randoob
PM me with your E-mail address and I will send you a drawing using a DPDT switch that you can post for everyone to check for errors..
I will send a .Jpg drawing.
 
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Old 08-06-06, 12:33 PM
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Close but no cookie.

OK. Got rid of the Power Fist switch and bought a Square D 2601 AG2 reversing switch. See updated pictures at:

http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l154/randymcdermott/

"Scan10265.jpg." is the instructions for the switch. I think I'm using "1-Phase System: Split Phase Motor" (top left box in jpg). Bottom right box shows internal switching with terminal numbers.

As shown in "SquareDReversingSwitch005.jpg", I've got 110V (orange cable with yellow plug) going into the motor wiring box. Due to the fact that there wouldn't be enough room in the motor box for my connections, I added another box on top where all of my connections will be made.

I couldn't find a 7 conductor cable to run to the switch so I made one with 1/2" plastic hose and threaded 7 wires through it.

Most of today was spent going over all of the gracious replies above trying to make sense of it all but to no avail.

Would someone please try and straighten me out again?

Randy
 
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Old 08-06-06, 01:22 PM
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Ok, now you have me where I am going to have to think. I actually had it for your other switch.

Actually this looks good too. It actually removes the requirement for jumpers needed in using the other switch.

ok.

hot wire to switch 5

P1 to switch 6

(P2, T3) to switch 1

(T2, T4 and neutral) to switch 4

T8 to switch 3

T5 toi swwtich 2

the multiple term connections can be made in the peckerhead with a single lead running to the switch.

Now if I have my count correct that would be (presuming the hot lead is going to the peckerhead first which it appears you did do) you have 6 hot conductors plus a ground betwen the motor and the switch which makes seven.

the connections of t5 and t8 can be reversed if the for-clockwise and rev-cc situation needs to be changed to the opposite.

edit: I hope. let the other guys pick at this before actually hooking it up.
 
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Old 08-06-06, 01:27 PM
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Thanks for the quick reply nap.

I'm a bit burnt out now but I'll try that first thing in the morning.
 
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Old 08-06-06, 04:29 PM
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nap!

Had a burst of energy and went at it again. Done! My round nap!

Cheers to all who replied.

Randy
 
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Old 08-06-06, 04:40 PM
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I'm just glad nothing blew up!!

Just kidding. Glad to help.
 
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Old 08-06-06, 05:35 PM
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Well...

The switch instructions showed a jumper between 3 and 5. I didn't know if you intended to leave that in of not. I left it in...fired it up in reverse...blown breaker.

Removed jumper...fired it up in reverse...bonus!...forward...blown breaker.

Checked my connections...my bad...fired it up in forward...bonus!

Forward and reverse are in the right directions too.

Check the video:
http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l1...gAnch=imgAnch1

Randy
 
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Old 08-06-06, 06:03 PM
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The wiring I described should be the only wiring on the switch. The only diagram I used was the last one in the series of diagrams that showed the "internal switching" of the switch and the motor diagram you also gave for the motor.

I saw no connection of which you speak in either diagram.

The rest, I pulled out of my..........a......head! That's it, out of my head.


Now you really need to put a NSFW on that tail end of the video though. The last time I saw somebody half naked smiling like that...............well, I can't remember the last time I saw a half naked person smiling. Strange!

congrats, mission accomplished
 
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Old 08-07-06, 07:59 AM
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I really must apologize to anyone who may have been offended by my video. After 3 weeks of trying to figure this one out, when I finally got it, I had an irresistable urge to dance arround naked.

I did have the forsight to close my garage door for courtesy to the neighbors but when I shot the vid I neglected to notice my attire.

In the future I'll be sure to have my wife preview video before posting.
 
  #26  
Old 08-07-06, 01:59 PM
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Hey, I was just kidding ya Randy.

Everything's cool.
 
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Old 08-07-06, 04:42 PM
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Come on! Laugh! That was my sorry attempt at being funny. I was wearing shorts. It was hot last night.

I really do appreciate your help.
 
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Old 08-07-06, 05:31 PM
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You made me look.
 
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