220 to Electric Tankless Water Heater - Tripping Braker?

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  #1  
Old 08-23-06, 05:41 PM
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Question 220 to Electric Tankless Water Heater - Tripping Braker?

Hi,
I bought this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6035709356&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBOFF%3AIT&rd=1

220 Volt - 54 Amp - Dual heating chambers for max. heat output variable by front panel control

It works very well, until it trips the breaker.
Here is the breaker box and the installed heater

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/go_kitty8/album?.dir=/ad60re2&.src=ph&.tok=phYs5YFB9z1d2rE3

On the old heater, with a tank, only the red and black wires were connected; not the white wire. On the cable coming out of the water heater there is black, red and white wire. If you look how it's wired in the fuse box, how's it supposed to be wired at the water heater?

What is going wrong here?!!

Thanks for your help!
Jessie
 
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  #2  
Old 08-23-06, 05:49 PM
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I looked at the breaker. It's a 2-pole 30A. You know you don't add the amperage, right? It's still a 30A breaker, and you're asking why it's tripping with a 54A load?
 
  #3  
Old 08-23-06, 05:53 PM
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Does it also have a green or bare grounding wire?
 
  #4  
Old 08-23-06, 06:10 PM
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That splice needs to be in a better box as well. I hope it is only temporary.

I'll also second Mac's reply. A 54 amp load will usually trip a 30 amp circuit.

That heater needs a 70 amp circuit wired with #4cu.
 
  #5  
Old 08-23-06, 06:31 PM
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Hi,

Sorry guys, they didnt teach this in home ec.

The heater unit has a black, white, and red wire. The electrical cable coming from the fuze box has a black, white, and bare wire.

The old heater hooked to the red and black wires.

Re: 30A
I guess I just figured 30 + 30 = 60... no?

What do I need to get and do? Please be real specific.

Home ec = girl



Jessie
 
  #6  
Old 08-23-06, 06:41 PM
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First, tell us exactly what is says on the rating plate on the unit. Voltage and amperage (or wattage).

Second, and most importantly, if you are not extremely confident in doing electrical work, and have some good project experience doing such work, I would seriously consider having a pro do this job. #4cu is not the most user friendly wire to deal with, especially for someone new to this type of work.

Also, this will not be cheap. Unless of course the unit is right near the panel. Copper is at an all time high and #4 is not very small.

Like I said, you need a 70 amp circuit run with #4cu cable. I will assume 4/2nm cable.
 
  #7  
Old 08-23-06, 08:20 PM
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Speedy this is from the manufactuerers site.


The TITAN-SCR2 Tankless Water Heater comes with a 10 year warranty on all water-carrying components and all other parts are warrantied for one year. Installation is quick and easy, requiring no venting and the TITAN-SCR2 compact size allows installation almost anywhere. The TITAN-SCR2 is without a doubt the Tankless Water Heater for the 21st century.



220 VAC Std.(208/277 Avail.)
Dual Incoloy/Nichrome
Up to 99.5%
0.4 GPM-on/).3 GPM-off
Red-on/Amber-stand by
10 years on casing 1 year on components
Dual Microtemp Thermofuse - Manual Resetable Thermostat


U.S. Patent # 5,408,578


Note that the KW and Amps are controlled by the setting on the Power Mode.

Check specifications on unit used. Voltage, amperage, breaker and wire may vary depending on local electrical standards. Consult a professional plumber or electrician for guidance.

The electrical specifications are based on 220 volts. It should be noted that higher voltage will increase power, just as lower voltage will have the reverse effect. The (POWER MODE CONTROL) can be adjusted to compensate allowing the user to increase or decrease water temperature. For best performance adjust temperature at MEDIUM FLOW (approximately 1 GPM) this is the average water flow at any faucet with an aerator.

Remember, that any adjustments made on your unit will take seconds to reach point of use. DO NOT OVER HEAT WATER. Water temperature from 105F to 120F is adequate for all practical purposes

MODELS
Model Max KW at 220V Volts Max Amps at 220V
N-120 11.8KW 220V 54
N-100 10.8KW 220V 49
N-85 8.5KW 220V 38
N-75 7.5KW 220V 34
N-64 6.4KW 220V 29
N-42 4.2KW 220V 19
N-10 3.2KW 110V 29*

* N-10 uses 110 volts and will supply only warm water.

This from the Ebay info file:

This is the most powerful N-120 Model

Specs

Compliance UL-#499
Physical dimensions-- 11" x 8" x 2 1/2"
Shipping weight -- 12 LBS.
Brass and copper casing.
1/2" standard pipe pressure fitting connection.
5 PSI to 150 PSI--All Steel Construction with no PLASTIC!
220 Volt - 54 Amp - Dual heating chambers for max. heat output variable by front panel control.
Energy efficiency up to 99.5!!

Roger
 
  #8  
Old 08-24-06, 09:19 AM
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Exclamation

Originally Posted by EG13
Hi,

Sorry guys, they didnt teach this in home ec.

The heater unit has a black, white, and red wire. The electrical cable coming from the fuze box has a black, white, and bare wire.

The old heater hooked to the red and black wires.

Re: 30A
I guess I just figured 30 + 30 = 60... no?

What do I need to get and do? Please be real specific.

Home ec = girl



Jessie
Jessie, you asked what you need to do and you said that we should be real specific.
Well, I too, looked at the photos that you provided. I noticed that the breaker that is shown in the picture is a Murray and further this is a quad circuit breaker with a handle tie for the breakers in question. The box containing the connections between the water heater and the branch circuit looks as if it is a "cut in" box that is commonly used for installing boxes in existing walls and is not suitable for the 1 the size of the wires entering the the box and 2 the intended use.

So, here is exactly what you should do. Hire an electrician or find a friend who has done some electrical work before.

Finding the circuit breaker alone to replace the one that's existing may be a bit of a challenge depending on where you are located. Additionally, this new load may be to big for the existing load center.
 
  #9  
Old 08-24-06, 01:20 PM
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"I noticed that the breaker that is shown in the picture is a Murray and further this is a quad circuit breaker with a handle tie for the breakers in question."
"Additionally, this new load may be to big for the existing load center."
"Finding the circuit breaker alone to replace the one that's existing may be a bit of a challenge depending on where you are located."

? It should be replaced with= ? (specific as possible)
? A higher amp quad circuit breaker ? i.e. ???
? Home Depot ?

"The box containing the connections between the water heater and the branch circuit looks as if it is a "cut in" box that is commonly used for installing boxes in existing walls and is not suitable for the 1 the size of the wires entering the box and 2 the intended use."

? The correct type to use would be = ?

"So, here is exactly what you should do. Hire an electrician or find a friend who has done some electrical work before."

Thank you but, no (and I mean this in a nice way). I already re-routed all the plumbing, by my self, and it came out just fine! I hooked it up this way, and I know it's not right, but I just need some help; some advice. I'm not going to wait to get an electrician to come out and give him a bunch of cash for something I know I can do. I know how to turn the main off, I'm not going to kill myself. Please, just tell me what I need to do.
I appreciate your concern, I really do, but I can do this. I just want to be as clear as possible as to what should be replaced and the correct replacement.
This forum has been very helpful, and the people here are very generous to donate there time and knowledge to people like me. If you can help me out I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thank you all for your time and help,
Jessie
 
  #10  
Old 08-24-06, 01:36 PM
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-Get some 4/2NM cable.
-Run it from your panel to the appliance location.
-Bring the wire into the unit and make the proper connections. -This should be in the instructions.
-If the panel is not visible from the unit, a 100 amp (rated) disconnect is required near the unit.
-TURN OFF THE MAIN BREAKER. Don't forget, there is still dangerous voltage in the panel with the main off.
-Bring the cable into the panel.
-Hook up the ground wire to the ground bar in the panel.
-Hook up the two insulated wires in the 4/2 cable to the terminals of a two-pole 70 amp breaker. This breaker MUST be rated for your panel.

I agree about the possibility that this unit may overload your existing service. A 54 amp load is considerable.

Knowing how to do the actual physical work is one thing.
Knowing what you are doing and why is another thing enitrely.
This type of work is more than stringing wire and shooting staples.
 
  #11  
Old 08-24-06, 01:41 PM
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EG13, If you mess up the plumbing drain, you will get a sewer gas smell in the house. If you mess up the supply lines things will get wet.(granted this can cause major water damage)

If you mess up electrical work, a fire can start in the middle of the night when you are sleeping and kill you and your entire family. Someone, purhaps your child, could touch something and be killed on the spot.

There is no comparison between the two with regard to safety.

I am sure that you could do this work, with the proper guildance, the level of help that you need cannot be given over the internet in a forum. Based on your photos, posts, and responce to others posts, I have to suggest you call a pro for this one, and watch him carefully so that on the next project you will have a better idea about what is going on.

Also, some of our members here can suggest some good books on electrical wiring that you should read, before trying to do electrical work on your own.

Electricity is an equal oppertunity killer. If it gets a chance, it will kill you.
 
  #12  
Old 08-24-06, 01:48 PM
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The breaker:
What you have is an old quad style breaker. Circuit breakers need to be matched exactly with the brand and type of panel they are installed into. No one on this board can tell you exactly what breaker you need without knowing the brand and model of the panel as well as what other breakers are installed. This entire process is complicated by the fact that your panel is older which means the breaker is probably special order from a supply house. The breaker needs to be a double pole 60A which probably is not availible in a quad configuration. The domino effect is that you will probably have to rearrage or replace some of your other breakers if you don't have open slots in the panel.

The Box:
I would use a deep,steel 4-11/16" square box with flat cover. Home Depot probably sells these. You also need NM box entrance clamps rated for the size cable.

The Cable:
You will need to replace the cable between your main panel and the water heater. This cable will need to be either 6/3 or 6/2, which is not clear based on the information provided so far. Your existing water heater cable is inadequate to handle the electrical demands of a tankless heater.

Electrician:
I truly respect the do it yourself spirit, and I like that you have confidence in your ability but electricity is unforgiving and deadly. Plumbing mistakes might get your feet wet, but electrical mistakes can be fatal. I'm not just talking about when you're working on wires. If the heater is not wired correctly, not grounded correctly, or has the wrong breaker or cable it can start a fire or electrocute a person in the shower. A tankless heater install is more than a novice job in my opinion; I strongly recommend hiring an electrician and closely following the work so you can learn from it.
 
  #13  
Old 08-24-06, 02:23 PM
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IP, according the the info provided this unit draws 54 amps at 220v. #6 in NM cable will not be adequate. She will need #4.

Also "3-wire" is not required since this is only a 220v applaince, not 120/240v.
 
  #14  
Old 08-24-06, 02:44 PM
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OK Gentlemen,

The electrocution via shower got to me.

Compromise... I will go get the needed items, then I will ask the guy who did the 220 dryer line to come over. Good?

I put up a couple more photos with information that was missing.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/go_kitty8/album?.dir=/ad60re2&.src=ph&.tok=phYs5YFB9z1d2rE3

If you look at them, can you tell me what to get? Which should I replace. I already have lots of $ in this so think "inexpensive as possible". I don't mind having to go to a few places to get what's needed.

Thank you everybody.
 
  #15  
Old 08-24-06, 03:21 PM
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If I could make a few observations.

The cable coming out of the heater appears to be UF cable so it isnt a factory installed cable whip.

I suspect it is 6/3 G (black, white, red and bare conductors)
This is where the white wire is coming from. She doesnt need it.

There is a wiring compartment with terminal block inside this heater. It has lug type connections for a 240 volt supply. so given the right cable that is long enough to reach the unit you wouldnt need the junction box but you will need a disconnect. You would have three terminals in the wiring conmpartment of the heater enclosure. If you used a 2 conductor with ground cable you would connect the black to L1.... bare to ground (center terminal)... and white to L2.

L1 and L2 would make no mater of course on which color you connected .

Speedy is sizing the heater as a continuous load...nothing wrong with that. I do believe though that this is not considered a continuous load and a 6 awg copper supply could be considered a minimum for the conductors at 54 amps. A 60 amp breaker would work for overcurrent protection. She did say she wanted the cheapest solution.

Other concerns...this is a GE meter main unless I am mistaken it is a 50 amp main breaker.

The main buss appears to be split in the middle. You can only have one 240 volt breaker besides the main in this panel.
Never worked in a panel like this one.

PROBLEM....the heater has more amperage than her utility service.

EG13 who put the UF cable on the heater or did it come this way? Also would you verify that this is the N120 model ??

Roger
 

Last edited by Roger; 08-24-06 at 06:29 PM.
  #16  
Old 08-24-06, 03:47 PM
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Hi Roger and thanks,

I don't want to open the heater, it will void the warranty.

With that said, what should I do?

Jess
 
  #17  
Old 08-24-06, 03:57 PM
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Unless I am mistaken (might wait for other opinions) you are unfortunately not going to be able to use this heater as it is rated more in amps than the service to your house. Are you sure this is the N 120 54 amp model and not one of the other lower amp models?
You will not void the warranty opening the wiring compartment I suspect it is one door exposing the entire guts of the unit. Just make sure the power is off before you do.

Did the heater come with that cable already installed in it?
 
  #18  
Old 08-24-06, 04:01 PM
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Hi,

Yes, that is exactly how the heater came and yes, it is that model.

The only thing that may make a difference is that it will only be run on the medium setting; it gets plenty hot there.

Oh please say there's a way... I need a shower!
 
  #19  
Old 08-24-06, 04:13 PM
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I'm not seeing a way to use this legally and safely. Copy and paste this link and you will see what the inside connection should look like.

http://www.titanheater.com/tankless_water_heater_inside.php

I cant explain a new in box heater coming with that cable if it only has a need for 240 volts. It does have a red, white, black and bare in it correct?

Can you tell us what that cable has on it.... as for writing telling you what size it is... it should have something like 6/3 with ground UF type or something in that order on the outside jacket.

I have no idea what the amperage would be at medium setting but it is irrelevant the unit must be sized according to its nameplate maximum rating. Is there a return policy?
 
  #20  
Old 08-24-06, 04:26 PM
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I just got an e-mail back from titan....this heater is not a continuous load. Here is the e-mail qoute from a copy of the literature they sent me on line.

"For instance, the SCR2 N-120 draws a maximum of 54 amps. Meaning, it will consume a maximum of 54 amps at peak power output, only as necessary. Our local codes (Miami, FL) call for the use of a 60 amp breaker, and a #6 AWG wire gauge."

This exceeds your utility service supplying your entire house!!

Do you understand this??
 
  #21  
Old 08-24-06, 04:39 PM
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Ok,
I found this on their site FAQs:

What are the power requirements: Breaker amp, wire size

The breaker's amp rating will be determined by your unit's current draw (AMP consumption).
The wire gauge size (AWG) will be determined by the breaker you will be using. That is, the wire must safely carry the current from breaker to your tankless water heater.

For instance, the SCR2 N-120 draws a maximum of 54 amps. Meaning, it will consume a maximum of 54 amps at peak power output, only as necessary. Our local codes (Miami, FL) call for the use of a 60 amp breaker, and a #6 AWG wire gauge.

***

The cable coming out says: 600 volt NM - B (or R it's hard to tell becuase its not stamped in very deep.

Hope this is what you needed.

Jess
 
  #22  
Old 08-24-06, 04:50 PM
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Ok you have the same info they sent me e-mail.

Heres the thing, your main panel is only 50 amps unless there is another panel somewhere, I dont think so because this is the panel at the meter so I doubt it feeds another panel when it only has a 50 amp rating.
This heater draws more amps than your main panel rating. I cannot in good concience tell you to install and operate this heater without a service upgrade to a 100 amp minimum panel.

Sorry, are you still breathing??

BTW...the NM-B cable is fine as long as its 6 awg copper....I cant figure out why they would put in a black,white,red and bare 6/3 g though for a 240 volt heater.

If and when you resolve the main panel issue needing an upgrade. You will need an NM-B 6/2grd cable (black,white and bare). As mentioned by Speedy Petey that cable coming from the heater needs to go to a disconnect (a 60 amp one). This disconnect will be your junction box instead of what you have now. Then bring your cable from the new main panel and 60 amp double pole breaker to the disconnect. You do not have to open the heater just leave the factory nm-b cable that came installed as is and connect the end to the disconnect. A simple 60 amp air conditioner disconnect will work these are readily available at the big box stores.

Also the 30 + 30 = 30 (not 60)...... so your correct breaker will be 60 + 60 = 60

Do not operate this heater until you have the corrected wiring completed.

good luck

Roger
 

Last edited by Roger; 08-24-06 at 05:37 PM.
  #23  
Old 08-24-06, 05:22 PM
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"Sorry, are you still breathing??"

Not so much.

I would upgrade though, it's too easy to trip the breakers in this place.

How can I do this without replacing everything?

Thanks for everything,
Jessie
 
  #24  
Old 08-24-06, 05:42 PM
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Roger, you are correct about the continuous load issue. I was applying 422.13 for "Storage Type" water heaters. I was just thinking water heater.
This unit does not apply.
Good call.
 
  #25  
Old 08-24-06, 05:44 PM
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Sorry Jessie. This is a BIG problem with these units.
They sell them up big, but don't tell you the down sides, like "A service upgrade may be required".

We get this all the time and many times customers think we are trying to pad the job by recommending an upgrade.
A 54 amp load added to even a 100 amp service is a considerable burden.
 
  #26  
Old 08-24-06, 05:49 PM
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Ok, so what can I upgrade to? Besides cost of new panel what is the downside? Can I make it so I can transfer the old breakers or ?

I need a list
 
  #27  
Old 08-24-06, 05:52 PM
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Jessie, upgrading your panel does not require replacing everything.

Depending on whether the lines to the meter are above ground, under ground or both, the power company will either certify the ones in place or will replace them or specify what needs to be replaced. What is in place may be sufficient.

The wire from the meter to the panel will most likely need to be replaced, and of course the panel will be replaced.

The new panel will need to be properly installed, which means it will have to be properly grounded. However, all of your existing circuits can be connected, without upgrading them. or modifying them in any way.

I suggest that you get at least three estimates from electricians recommended by friends or relatives. Make sure that the electricians specify exactly what they will provide and what will be done. You want to be able to compare the estimates, and if they are ambiguous it will be difficult to do so.

Depending on your other loads (and I have not looked at the pictures), upgrading to 150 or 200 amps may be prudent. You most likely will NOT be able to use your existing breakers, and you certainly don't want to anyway.
 
  #28  
Old 08-24-06, 06:04 PM
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I added some information to my last post might want to re-read.

I see Bob has replied.... welcome his advice.

I'll give some insight on what to do if you decide to go at this yourself.

Well you seem to want to do this stuff yourself so get some good knowledgeable help and study up on this in one of several books you can purchase at the big box stores.

You will need a permit most likely to do this work. The utility should come out and pull your meter on the date you request. This will remove all power so you can work.

But I warn you this isnt a job for someone that doesnt have a darn good understanding of what needs to be done as for grounding and bonding and proper connections.

I would stick with a meter main outside panel to keep it close to what you have now. You will have to have the utility determine if you need to have the service wires upgraded to supply a 100 amp or bigger panel. I would consider a 125 amp or 150 amp there wont be any cost difference to speak of.

For what its worth that old 50 amp panel needs to go. So if you can afford the up-grade go for it.


Start with the local buildings code department and the utility.
Then bone up with the books on what you need to do. Come back here when you are ready and we will help you through it.

Most important thing is to make sure a qualified person disconnects the power to your house so you can install the new panel without any hot wires to worry about.

Then after the new panel upgrade is inspected by the codes department the utility will come out in most cases and turn your power back on. Everywhere is a little different on how they do these things.... you will just have to find out what is needed.

As a last note if monies permit hire a pro to do this upgrade for you.

I apologize for this post getting so complicated but as you can see from all the professionals that have replied it takes a lot of information sometimes to give you safe advice. You did an excellent job of making that possible for us to do....thanks. We are only trying to keep you safe.


Good Luck

Roger
 
  #29  
Old 08-25-06, 04:56 AM
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Everything I was going to say has already been said.

But I will suggest something that others haven't.

Do you have gas service? Either LP or Natural?
If so, send this heater back and get a gas powered one. They take less than an amp, and some use no electricity at all.
 
  #30  
Old 08-25-06, 10:55 AM
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Can't let this go without comment. One of my pet peeves...

A gas powered tankless is another equally complicated can of worms. Proper venting (4" as opposed to standard 3") has to be installed and a gas service upgrade is often needed to supply enough gas. Tankless units might save a little by not heating water when it's not in use, but they're hogs when water is flowing.

As has been said, people selling these units often fail to understand or explain the complexities involved in installing them. They also rarly understand the real benefit, or lack there of. It would be prudent for anyone considering a tankless to calculate what they spend per month on water heating. Consider then that a tankless provides perhaps at best a 25% savings, do the math and see how much benefit there really is:

I spend in the area of $15 a month to heat water for a family of 4. When we had all the kids at home (6 people in the house) it was, maybe, $20 per month. At an average cost of $1000 more to buy and install a tankless unit and a monthly savings of about $3, I would reap the reward in 333 months (25% of 20 is 3, 1000 divided by 3 is 333) IF the unit lasted that long and had no repairs in that time (what are the chances??). I do, however live in an area where the incoming water temperature is around 90 degrees in the summer and my water heater sits in a 110+ degree attic for 9 months out of the year so others might get closer to this making sense, but even those who spend $40 a month to heat water would have a hard time making a tankless a good investment.

The power of sales. A good screen door can drastically reduce the need for air-conditioning at the North Pole. Anyone disagree?

Doug M.
 
  #31  
Old 08-25-06, 12:47 PM
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Hello Doug

No I cant really argue with your reasoning. We use the smaller electric tankless heaters as supplementary here in the midwest in bathrooms and kitchens quite often. This is usually to get the water hot sooner on the hot side because of distance from main hot water tank. Its akin to spending another 5 or 6 hundred dollars for a 16 SEER vs 13 SEER. Remember when they we pushing the pulse furnaces?

Roger
 
  #32  
Old 08-25-06, 12:51 PM
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What's wrong with pulse furnaces? I have one. It's 99 percent efficient. Best you could get at the time.
 
  #33  
Old 08-25-06, 01:06 PM
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Supplementary boosting is a logical use for tankless and can provide a more reasonable cost benefit or, at least, the additional advantage of instant hot water and less water waste. The smaller units available for this don't need huge electric or gas connections to perform their jobs.

Other logical uses for tankless include houses with limited space for a tank and very large houses with high consumption needs. A tankless that can provide unlimited hot water is a better choice than a 100 gallon water heater...

Pulse furnaces? Not here. Any time you need heat, just call and I'll send some up. Please send me a few gallons of water in return. :P

Doug M.
 
  #34  
Old 08-25-06, 01:07 PM
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I can't let this pass.

DougM wrote:
"I would reap the reward in 333 months (25% of 20 is 3, 1000 divided by 3 is 333)"

Sorry Doug but 25% of 20 is FIVE, not three. Under your formula of cost re-capture your payback time would be only 200 months or 16.67 years.

Still, your argument makes excellent economic sense. While SOME people MAY actually save money by using a tankless water heater the majority of of people will not. It is not at all hard to make the case that for many people the tankless heater would actually cost MORE than a tank-type heater over a period of several years.

Operating costs are not the only consideration one must make in deciding what "type" of water heater to use. One must also consider initial cost, installation cost, maintenance costs, expected lifetime and replacement costs.
 
  #35  
Old 08-25-06, 01:25 PM
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Red face

And I sit here working with corporate budgets all day long... Profits have never been better. I was trained by one of the top executives of Enron.

I must have used a reciprical margin...

Doug M.
 
  #36  
Old 08-25-06, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by dougm
I spend in the area of $15 a month to heat water for a family of 4. When we had all the kids at home (6 people in the house) it was, maybe, $20 per month.
I'm curious how you came up with these numbers.
 
  #37  
Old 08-25-06, 02:29 PM
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It's a rough estimate. My gas bill on months when the furnace isn't running is around $10. Sometimes $11, sometimes $9, fairly consistant, going up over the years as the gas rates have risen. We also use gas for cooking so assume roughly $1 (a guess) is for that. On months when the furnace isn't running, it's warm out so I can also estimate that usage for the water heater is higher during the cool months (November, December and January) so I'm gussing the average at around $15 per month. If anything, $15 is probably a little high. Like I said, the heater is being fed with 90 degree water and sits in a 110 degree attic. Very typical in this area and other warm climates.

Cooler climates need to do their own math.

Doug M.
 
  #38  
Old 08-25-06, 05:27 PM
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Bob there is absolutely nothing wrong with a pulse furnace. My point was the difference in cost between them an the more conventional styles 80-90% effiecient and recovery cost.

Now if your interested in the environmental impact and energy waste being minimal then by all means get a pulse furnace. If we are ever going to clean up our planet we need to get serious. Kinda like the war on terror we do good for a while then we draw a line in the sand when too many peoples boats get rocked.

By the way I'm told Bryant makes an excellent pulse. You have any recommendations? I'm in the market for a new furnace. PM me if you dont want to list any on the forum.

Roger
 
  #39  
Old 08-25-06, 05:42 PM
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Roger,

I have a Lennox. I don't know much about them. Mine was purchased in the heat of the moment, or rather in the cold of the moment, as our old one died in the middle of winter...

I remember being told that the traditional model was 83 percent efficient (or something like that) , and that the puilse was 99 percent efficient.

It was $1,000 more expensive. Have I saved that much in 16 years (so far)? Probably.
 
  #40  
Old 08-25-06, 07:08 PM
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It is a matter of money too many. I've never looked at it that way. I just save a little more and get what I think is best for my family and the planet. Can't always do what is best for mother earth but whenever you can it is worth while.

Roger
 
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