"cocked" J-box

Reply

  #1  
Old 09-08-06, 12:38 PM
dkpbxman's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NYS
Posts: 167
"cocked" J-box

Noticing that one of the faceplates covering an outlet in the dining room was not sitting flush with the wall on one side, I took the plate off and saw that the plastic box behind it was extending past the "plane" of the wall about an 1/8" on that side.

It looks like when the box was attached to the stud, it was put on crooked or the stud itself is twisted.

What's the best way to deal with it? I was thinking of just trimming the box but the "channels" the receptacle screws into would still be crooked.

Thanks
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 09-08-06, 12:40 PM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 13,973
The best way to fix this is by reattacvhing the box to the stud.

If you don;t want to do this because it requires opening the wall (and I woldn't want to do it either), then remove and replace the box with an old work box. You can do this without opening the wall.
 
  #3  
Old 09-08-06, 04:24 PM
nap's Avatar
nap
nap is offline
New Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: north
Posts: 4,163
If it was me and if the receptacle could be mounted plumb utilizing the adjustment available or it will be straight enough for you to be happy, simply grind off the offending protruding portion of the box.

Simple, easy, quick and done by thousands of electricians across the country when faced with similar situations.
 
  #4  
Old 09-08-06, 04:36 PM
Sthrnamp's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Mid TN
Posts: 188
From a remodel specialist...

In order for you to flush this box enough for the plate to be flush you don't need an old work box, and you don't need to "open the wall"...f

Take a sawzall (with a metal blade) down the side of the box that is attched to the stud (btw the stud is probably crooked)...So with the metal blade cut the nails that attach the box to the stud (carefully) and then push the box back in the wall (just the 1/8th of an inch that you need) and re-attach the box by screwing 1&1/2 sheet rock screws into the stud inside the box...(simply re attach the receptacle) Give a holler if you need any more instruction
 
  #5  
Old 09-08-06, 04:39 PM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 13,973
Sheetrock screws inside the box? I don't think so...
 
  #6  
Old 09-08-06, 04:52 PM
nap's Avatar
nap
nap is offline
New Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: north
Posts: 4,163
Originally Posted by racraft
Sheetrock screws inside the box? I don't think so...
Ok, make me out to be the fool.

Why would this method be incorrect/contrary to some code section?
 
  #7  
Old 09-08-06, 04:55 PM
Sthrnamp's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Mid TN
Posts: 188
indeed...

ummm....what? So, obviously i am curious as to your objections to this solution...really post back to inform.... thanx
 
  #8  
Old 09-08-06, 05:21 PM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 13,973
314.23 (B)(1) specifies the location of screws in a junction box used for mounting and has a disclaimer about exposed threads. The location in the box and the exposed threads issue mean it MAY be difficult to put the screws in place so that they meet code.

Further, sometimes people have a hard time keeping the screw terminals of a receptacle from contacting the side of the box. A misplaced screw that sticks out even a little makes this problem even more likely to occur.
 
  #9  
Old 09-08-06, 05:27 PM
Sthrnamp's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Mid TN
Posts: 188
So if i understand you correctly the screws are fine as long as there are no explosed threads. Right? Secondly, The way an 18 inch single gang box is made...the screw terminals do not touch the sides of the box...no matter how you adjust the receptacle...Not that i am disagreeing with you, adamantly, just disagreeing with you on a basis that i do this every day and know the inspectirs personally and none of them have a problem with doing this...I do thank you for your input though...If i am unclear bout any of your meanigs please feel free to correct me..AMP
 
  #10  
Old 09-08-06, 06:03 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: North of Boston, MA.
Posts: 2,113
Amp,
I see no big deal with your fix, If done correctly.
Any doubt tape the receptical.(if this is a plastic box) Shaveing the box is a good fix aswell, the receptical has some play, and any scaring will be hidden by the plate.

Shut the ckt off first!
 
  #11  
Old 09-09-06, 12:53 PM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 13,973
Not to beat a dead horse to death, but...

314.43 Nonmetallic Boxes. Provisions for supports or other mounting means for nonmetallic boxes shall be outside of the box, or the box shall be constructed so as to prevent contact between the conductors in the box and the supporting screws.


To me this prohibits adding a screw through a plastic box.
 
  #12  
Old 09-09-06, 01:06 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: North of Boston, MA.
Posts: 2,113
Point well taken Racraft,
In the real world barring the "code police" showing up unanounced, is this not a viable solution, so long as great care is taken to protect conductors and device.
"constructed", would this not lend itself to interpritation?
I construct an insulated barrier to protect the conductors.
 
  #13  
Old 09-09-06, 01:57 PM
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Bern, NC
Posts: 1,623
lectriclee, glad to see you admit that in real life you dont always do things one hunderd percent to code. It may be true that noone actaully does.

but, do you think this is the type of advice to be giving to DIYers on an open web forum?
 
  #14  
Old 09-09-06, 02:38 PM
nap's Avatar
nap
nap is offline
New Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: north
Posts: 4,163
It's giddy-up time

I have to take issue with racraft and 314.43

The section cited actually does not restrict nor allow screws or any other type of mounting. It is ONLY a construction standard. You know the old standards of the code, if it does not restrict nor prohibit something, it is acceptable.

This section could be interpreted as racraft intends but the truth is it is not a direction as to proper use or mounting of the box, merely the construction of the box.

A similar arguement could be made that since this section does not mention nails, then it would not be allowed to use nails to attach a box. This section is what it is and that is not a requirement for mounting.

I beleive the best arguement so far was racrafts first cite of 314.23 (B)(1) and its' requirement that any screw threads shall be protected. Although I still do not believe this restricts the use of screws inside the box as it speaks of screws passing through the box. That would infer the screw would enter one side and exit an opposing side. Even that is acceptable if following the guidelines of the screw being within 1/4 inch of the back or ends of the box and any exposed threads are protected.

I persoanlly believe the best arguement against a screw or such being within the plastic box is that it would need to be bonded as it may become energized and that is a requirement of section 250. Although this could be overcome as well. I would love to see the inspectors face when he sees a bonding wire between such screws and the egc and the resultant explanation.

I still vote for shaving off the protrusion. It is simpler and faster (read: less expensive) than any other method.
 
  #15  
Old 09-09-06, 02:48 PM
Sthrnamp's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Mid TN
Posts: 188
sorry to all...

J...good point i would like to accept responsibility for the direction the thread has taken. It was i that originally suggested this course of action as a possible remedy to the OPs perdicament. I figured simple solution to simple problem, My bad. I will, in the future, make recomendations that will not be as controversial.

I will say that the grinding of the box would seem to be more trouble than its worth...(thinking in terms of the care and skill it would take so as to not damage the sheetrock. Let alone the repair of the sheet rock in case one is not as skilled.)

It seems that we as professionals have to walk Occam's razor (as it were) We make recommendations as we would in our professions and yet we quote the NEC as though it were the Bible. I will give advice as i would do it if i were to do it myself (I will temper and take more care to make sure the OP understands the ramifications of my advice)

Thank you all for correcting and trying to steer the DIYers to safety and correctness of their projects.

Rest assured i will never knowingly give advice that will be dangerous and/or explicitly against the NEC or the natural properties of electricity or the containment thereof - AMP
 
  #16  
Old 09-09-06, 03:31 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: North of Boston, MA.
Posts: 2,113
JW: You are correct, AMP: Aswell
I would like to consider myself a PRO, And as such, would never imply,direct or (any other word) suggest that anyone do anything unsafe!
The OP's predicament calls for some modification. In My humble opinion I feel they have gotten decent advice. Had this issue been more technicaly involved I am confident that ALL replies would have reflected that.

We have all seen other posts that on their face appear to be trivial, and in reality are not. I personaly veiwed this one as important to the "OP",yet trivial in the big scope of things (safety).
I hope I have explained my position well, others can speak for themselfs
 
  #17  
Old 09-09-06, 03:49 PM
nap's Avatar
nap
nap is offline
New Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: north
Posts: 4,163
"I will say that the grinding of the box would seem to be more trouble than its worth...(thinking in terms of the care and skill it would take so as to not damage the sheetrock. Let alone the repair of the sheet rock in case one is not as skilled.) "

Some of the plastic boxes can be trimmed with a razor knife. For the hard boxes, a file can be used.

All of the other methods mentioned would require repair to the drywall to some extent as well. If properly performed, trimming would remove any repair of the drywall.

There are many methods of trimming the box all of them involve less work and trouble than remounting the box or installing a new box.

AND NO SCREWS IN THE BOX.

I believe Occum's razor would apply here but I prefer the more modern variation: KISS (keep it simple sparky) (ha, fooled ya)
----------------------------
If all of you work as hard at work as you do trying to ensure posters recieve the best info available, I am proud to consider myself in the group of electricians as each of you have shown the level of concern and intelligence neccessary to provide a quality and safe installation. Kudos to each of you.
 
  #18  
Old 09-09-06, 03:51 PM
dkpbxman's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NYS
Posts: 167
Talking Happy again

Just as a follow-up:

I went the cheap and easy route.

Being that the box is plastic, I trimmed it with a dremel and a cut-off wheel. After first shutting off the juice, I pulled the wires out of the way and then CAREFULLY cut the plastic from inside of the box. That and the "play" I got from not tightening the receptacle screws all the way, made things flush.

Thanks to everyone for their replies and sorry about inadvertantly starting a "discussion".
 
  #19  
Old 09-09-06, 04:01 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: North of Boston, MA.
Posts: 2,113
Thanks to everyone for their replies and sorry about inadvertantly starting a "discussion".


Don't appoligize: Discussion is how we all learn and grow.
(besides, it keeps us honest)
There's a hundred ways to get to the same destination.
 
  #20  
Old 09-09-06, 04:09 PM
nap's Avatar
nap
nap is offline
New Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: north
Posts: 4,163
"There's a hundred ways to get to the same destination"

and as proof, just ask a hundred different electricians how to get there.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
'