Wiring a new 4 wire Range receptacle

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  #1  
Old 09-24-06, 07:20 PM
shanej
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Wiring a new 4 wire Range receptacle

I have a Kenmore Duel Fuel Range with gas burners and electric stove.

The model # sticker says
3 wire 208-240 volts 6ohz only
Electrical Ratings 33.1amps @ 240v 29.1amps @ 208v

I have a cutler hammer breaker box with 100 amp service. I installed a 4 wire 50amp range receptacle with 6 awg wire in emt conduit to a 2 pole 50A breaker. There are 4 spots left on the breaker box after installing the 50a.

My questions are, does this sound propererly done and is the 50A breaker too big for the application. Should I be using a 40a breaker with the stated amperage of the range. Also is there a maximum amount of amps/breakers you should install on either column of the breaker box? There are 2 columns with 1 open spot on one side and 2 spots open on the other. The breaker box label says a maximum of 125amps per stab. I'm not sure what a stab is.

My dad thought I was crazy for using 6awg wire. He said he would have used 10 but I think he isn't thinking correctly.

Thanks in advance for your help.
 
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Old 09-24-06, 08:13 PM
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If you ran #6 in conduit the whole way it is a bit oversized but no problem at all. If you ran cable you would need #6.

The 50 amp circuit is fine for this. You did not need the 4-wire though. You have a straight 240v appliance.

I would run the circuit as a proper 4-wire circuit. At the unit though just use the two hots and the ground on the cord. Cap off the white since there will be nothing to connect it to.
 
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Old 09-24-06, 08:17 PM
shanej
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The stove came with a 4 prong plug preinstalled. I assumed the 3-wire on the tag meant 3-wire w/ground.

Will a 50a breaker be too much for the circuit if something goes wrong? Not enough to trip the breaker but enough to melt the lines?
 
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Old 09-24-06, 08:45 PM
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No because the wire is sized to the breaker.

I am very surprised the unit came with the 4-wire cord installed. It does not need a 4-wire circuit if it is only a 240v appliance.
 
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Old 09-24-06, 08:59 PM
shanej
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I thought the new code requires 4 wire for these applications in new construction? At least thats what I thought I remembered reading on these forums and others. I'm no electrician so I am not sure.
 
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Old 09-25-06, 03:45 AM
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The code cannot require a 4-wire installation if the unit does not require it.
That requirement is only for 120/240v units. Not straight 240v.
 
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Old 09-25-06, 03:47 AM
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Most electric ranges are 120/240 meaning that they use the streight 240 for some things and need a neutral to get 120 for some things.

Your range is a streight 240 meaning that there are no 120 volt loads in it. That is why it does not need a neutral.

However, IMHO you did the right thing installing the extra wire now. The future owners may want a different range, and with your installation, they can just change out the plug and be good to go. Just cap off the neutral in the box where it is not needed.
 
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Old 09-25-06, 07:34 AM
shanej
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There is all electronic controls with solenoids to lock out the gas burners and such, so I assumed that was the reason for the 120v.

My main concern was that I didn't have too big of a breaker installed for the application. What size wire would an application like this usually take if installed in conduit?
 
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Old 09-25-06, 08:49 AM
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On reading this thread again I am wondering if the name plate data is misleading. it says 3 wire 208-240. what color wires are on the range cord.

Do you have a link to the manual? Can you tell us if it says it needs a neutral?

The electronics could come from a 120v circuit split off of the 240 range wiring, or there could be a control transformer.
(actuallly there is a control transformer, the question is how it is wired.)

Number 8 wire on a 40 amp breaker would be adiquate for this range. But lets take another look at the neutral question.
 
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Old 09-25-06, 08:54 AM
shanej
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I dont have a manual and kenmore doesn't have a place to dl them, I have to order one from sears parts for $20(BS IMHO) unless someone knows of a better place to get one.

I can take the panel off the back to see how the plug is wired to the stove when I get home from work later tonight. I will post the info as soon as I do.
 
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Old 09-25-06, 09:03 AM
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Did the plug come factoy wired? If so, how many prongs does it have?
 
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Old 09-25-06, 09:06 AM
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Kenmore has all of their instruction manuals on-line. They do not have repair manuals, but they do have instruction manuals, which is what you need. Look again.
 
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Old 09-25-06, 09:16 AM
shanej
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The plug on the range is a 4 prong. I do not know for sure if it was installed from the factory as I bought the range from someone who bought a new house and didn't want the white appliances. It is new and unused but was installed by someone else in another home before.

I have looked all over the kenmore.com site and can't find anyplace to download instruction manuals. Can you provide a link to the page where you can search for them? I called their customer service and was told that they are not available online.
 
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Old 09-25-06, 09:26 AM
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I have a question for the electricians who help in this forum.

Table 220.55 note 4 says that the load for one range should be calculated at its name plate value. It says nothing about demand factor.

The OP name plate says 29 amps at 240 volts.

Am I reading something wrong or does that mean that this could be on a 30 amp circuit?

I was looking for the manual because the mfg listing or lableing could direct us to a different requirement. Around here inspectors consider installation manuals as mfg labling, and the stuff they say has to be done. The reason being that the same set up was used when they had he product listed.
 
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Old 09-25-06, 09:29 AM
shanej
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It actually says 33.1amps @ 240v but I don't know if that makes much of a difference. 29.1 @ 208v was the other figure.

When planning the install I wanted to make it so I could put in a bigger range if needed in the future.
 
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Old 09-25-06, 09:41 AM
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Sorry shanej, the higher amperage goes with the lower voltage. It is a math thing so it has to be this way..
 
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Old 09-25-06, 09:49 AM
shanej
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Any other info about my other questions?
"is there a maximum amount of amps/breakers you should install on either column of the breaker box? There are 2 columns with 1 open spot on one side and 2 spots open on the other. The breaker box label says a maximum of 125amps per stab. I'm not sure what a stab is."

I appreciate everything you guys do here. I can fix anything on a car but I am pretty new to the electricity.
 
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Old 09-25-06, 09:56 AM
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Shane,

240 volts is supplied by two wires from the power company. Each one is 120 volts and when "added" together they make 240 volts.

What you have on each physical side of your panel means nothing. This is because every other breaker on each side is fed from one leg of the 240 volts, and the oither breakers are fed from the second leg.

Ideally you strive for each 120 volt leg supplying half the current for the house needs. This is usually accomplished by keeping the breakers together in the panel, and keeping the unused slots together in the panel.
 
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