Contact Area of Receptacle hookups


  #1  
Old 09-29-06, 08:33 AM
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Contact Area of Receptacle hookups

Fine, I'll just open a new thread and let some other people chime in.

There is no room for closed minds on this forum. The topic is relevant to ELECTRICAL practice and WIRING. There is no religious, political, ethnic, or other off-topic or unauthorized value to this thread. Therefore, closure of such is a violation of Constitutional First Amendment Rights.

Lurkers, other posters, please feel free to join in the conversation.
 
  #2  
Old 09-29-06, 08:47 AM
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Um Jack,

This is a private web site. Constitutional rights do not apply here. Those who own this web decide what is and what is not posted.
 
  #3  
Old 09-29-06, 10:20 AM
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LOL

What racraft said... the First Amendment is only a restraint on government power. This a private board. Anything and everything can be censored.

What was the question anyways?
 
  #4  
Old 09-29-06, 09:13 PM
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Talking

FINE !!
We'll just humor (ignor) you.

"But" I agree with the first and the 2nd. Not HERE, It is PRIVATE.

Perhaps you may think of opening a NEW web site. Just a thought.

Please consider me CHIMED.

Love lee.
 
  #5  
Old 09-30-06, 07:04 AM
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Sorry Jack, you'll soon find, First Ammendment rights do not exist on many web boards. This one is a prime example. Say the "wrong" thing and get a thread shut down quicker than......well you get the idea.

Just watch.............
 
  #6  
Old 09-30-06, 01:58 PM
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Not sure what your question is, but recepticles are designed to safely carry their rated amperage. In theory, a 49 cent 15A duplex should carry the same amount of current as a $12 hospital grade 15A duplex. You get greater durability, better "grip" and longevity by installing better grade devices. I used spec grade devices throughout my house.
Hope that helps!
 
  #7  
Old 10-02-06, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew
Not sure what your question is, but recepticles are designed to safely carry their rated amperage. In theory, a 49 cent 15A duplex should carry the same amount of current as a $12 hospital grade 15A duplex. You get greater durability, better "grip" and longevity by installing better grade devices. I used spec grade devices throughout my house.
Hope that helps!
Well, if you would go read my previous thread - similar title -which was rudely closed, you would see that I was trying to find out if there is a significant difference in the contact area between back-stab(pressure spring loaded), side-screw, and back-wire(pressure plate) wiring of receptacles & switches.

I cited some differences I noticed both in the electrical performance of my electronics and in the kilowatt-hours used on some electric bills since switching some receptacles from backstab to back-wire or side-screw.

In that thread I was met with the "If a tree falls and no-one is around to hear it then it didn't make a sound" treatment, so I wold like a few more open-minded opinions about this.

regards,
 
  #8  
Old 10-02-06, 03:46 PM
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My order of preference for "connection integrity" would be (best to worst):

1- Back wired recepticles with the pressure plate.
2- Side screws
3- "Backstab" connector.

Properly applied, both 1 & 2 will provide a connection fully capable of safely providing the rated amperage without heating. Both have an adequate contact area with the conductor.
The backstab connection has only the edge of a springy piece of brass providing contact with the conductor. Under heavy loads and over time, they heat up & fail. the only reason this connection style was developed is that it is fast. It is NOT good.

What leads you to believe that the connection type is affecting your electric bill? Is is possible that something else changed that might be affecting your Kwh's?
 
  #9  
Old 10-02-06, 08:38 PM
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Wink

Andrew,

I assume you are referring to stranded conductors. regarding the last post. If so agreed.

If solid conductors, then the side screws are by far the best.

"J.O.T" RELAX!!!!

This is not a theory,opinion or other type site. (though I have thought so, sometimes myself)(sorry folks)

There is a page on this site for other conversation ( I know coz I've been sent there more than twice. ARRRGGGG)
But correctly so.

So head to "chats and whines". There we all spill our "guts".

Thanks. Keep posting and helping.
 
  #10  
Old 10-03-06, 06:57 AM
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Jack,
In your original thread you said that you had bad connections on a recepticle. I apologize for the way I worded previous posts. Let me try to explain again, in a more professional manner.

If you had a bad connection on an outlet it could have been getting warm, and therefore adding resistance, though minor to the circuit, in series with the load. TV, Radio etc.

Any large amount of resistance would cause the circuit to burn open, as there is a snowball effect on this type of loose connection. More heat = higher resistance = more heat = higher resistance etc.

If you were getting 120 volt from the start and the connections started to wear out you may have been only getting 119 volts at the appliance. Some new electronics are sensitive. I would say that it is unlikely but, possible that when you re-made the connections, you noticed an improvement in the way your equipment worked.

As far as the electric bill goes, I do not believe that you could have had enough unwanted resistance on the wires to cause a noticable increase in your electric bill without causing the loose connection to burn up, or some other voltage leak on the system.

One extra ohm of resistance on a 15 amp circuit that was actually using all 15 of its amps (these are extreeemly large numbers that I am using, an acutal problem would be much less) would give you 10.8 kwh after one month if that circut were in constant use the entire time. That would be a 90cent increase on my electric bill at my current rate.

As for the different types of connections. All of the ones that you question are different in quality, but the quality difference is in how likely they are to fail. If they are not failing, and there fore not adding resistance to the circuit, they would not effect the electric bill at all.

The point I was trying to make in the other thread, is that there must be some other factors that are also contributing to your much lower electric bill. Purhaps things were not being used while the circuit was not working for repairs. Purhaps the temperature outside was just two or three degrees cooler saving on AC costs. Purhaps your utility, like mine charges different rates depending on the time of year, and outdoor temperature.
 
  #11  
Old 10-03-06, 07:12 AM
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Contact area

If you are really interested in the amount of contact area, why not dissect each type and observe for yourself?
 
  #12  
Old 10-03-06, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by lectriclee
Andrew,

I assume you are referring to stranded conductors. regarding the last post. If so agreed.

If solid conductors, then the side screws are by far the best.

"J.O.T" RELAX!!!!

This is not a theory,opinion or other type site. (though I have thought so, sometimes myself)(sorry folks)

There is a page on this site for other conversation ( I know coz I've been sent there more than twice. ARRRGGGG)
But correctly so.

So head to "chats and whines". There we all spill our "guts".

Thanks. Keep posting and helping.
So lectriclee, that leads me to ask: Should backwiring be used for stranded copper wire only and not for solid? And secondly, that leads to my final question, should I just stick to THE outlet wiring method that has endured and proven safe and reliable for over 70 years - the sidescrew terminal?

By the way, whoever messed with my password so I couldn't log in earlier today: That was really CRAFTy of you!! But I'm still here!!!
 
  #13  
Old 10-03-06, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by jwhite
Jack,
In your original thread you said that you had bad connections on a recepticle. I apologize for the way I worded previous posts. Let me try to explain again, in a more professional manner.

If you had a bad connection on an outlet it could have been getting warm, and therefore adding resistance, though minor to the circuit, in series with the load. TV, Radio etc.

Any large amount of resistance would cause the circuit to burn open, as there is a snowball effect on this type of loose connection. More heat = higher resistance = more heat = higher resistance etc.

If you were getting 120 volt from the start and the connections started to wear out you may have been only getting 119 volts at the appliance. Some new electronics are sensitive. I would say that it is unlikely but, possible that when you re-made the connections, you noticed an improvement in the way your equipment worked.

As far as the electric bill goes, I do not believe that you could have had enough unwanted resistance on the wires to cause a noticable increase in your electric bill without causing the loose connection to burn up, or some other voltage leak on the system.

One extra ohm of resistance on a 15 amp circuit that was actually using all 15 of its amps (these are extreeemly large numbers that I am using, an acutal problem would be much less) would give you 10.8 kwh after one month if that circut were in constant use the entire time. That would be a 90cent increase on my electric bill at my current rate.

As for the different types of connections. All of the ones that you question are different in quality, but the quality difference is in how likely they are to fail. If they are not failing, and there fore not adding resistance to the circuit, they would not effect the electric bill at all.

The point I was trying to make in the other thread, is that there must be some other factors that are also contributing to your much lower electric bill. Purhaps things were not being used while the circuit was not working for repairs. Purhaps the temperature outside was just two or three degrees cooler saving on AC costs. Purhaps your utility, like mine charges different rates depending on the time of year, and outdoor temperature.
Thanks jwhite! Regrettably, I neglected to even purchase a voltmeter, let alone measure before & afters from those outlets.
 

Last edited by Jackofalltradez; 10-03-06 at 09:30 AM.
  #14  
Old 10-03-06, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Jackofalltradez
So lectriclee, that leads me to ask: Should backwiring be used for stranded copper wire only and not for solid? And secondly, that leads to my final question, should I just stick to THE outlet wiring method that has endured and proven safe and reliable for over 70 years - the sidescrew terminal?
IMHO back stab recs that rely on spring tenion should never be used. They are just plain more likely to fail. They do not work well at all on stranded wire, and are not good on solid wire either.
Pressure plate devices, where you put the wire in the back and then use a set screw to force the pressure plate to hold the wire in place are the best. Side wire next. For residential work the side wire are the most cost effective and will give you years of excellent use.


Originally Posted by Jackofalltradez
By the way, whoever messed with my password so I couldn't log in earlier today: That was really CRAFTy of you!! But I'm still here!!!
Noone was messing with anyone's account. The few people on this site who have the ability to do that, do not have the inclination. They would either ban a user all together, talk to them privately about a concern, or do nothing at all.
 
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Old 10-03-06, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jwhite
IMHO back stab recs that rely on spring tenion should never be used. They are just plain more likely to fail. They do not work well at all on stranded wire, and are not good on solid wire either.
Pressure plate devices, where you put the wire in the back and then use a set screw to force the pressure plate to hold the wire in place are the best. Side wire next. For residential work the side wire are the most cost effective and will give you years of excellent use.




Noone was messing with anyone's account. The few people on this site who have the ability to do that, do not have the inclination. They would either ban a user all together, talk to them privately about a concern, or do nothing at all.
I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I was referring to PRESSURE PLATE(back wire with screw) as far as usage with stranded vs. solid copper. If I was referring to back-stab, I would refer to it as BACK-STAB. In the future, If I refer to back-wire, it means Pressure plate.
 
  #16  
Old 10-03-06, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Jackofalltradez
I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I was referring to PRESSURE PLATE(back wire with screw) as far as usage with stranded vs. solid copper. If I was referring to back-stab, I would refer to it as BACK-STAB. In the future, If I refer to back-wire, it means Pressure plate.
I will do my best to remember what you call certain devices. It is, however much easier to remember the industry standard terms, since I use them evey day.

Pressure plate devices work just as well with solid or stranded wires, as long as you do not over tighten the screw. It is much easier to over tighten on a solid wire.
 
  #17  
Old 10-03-06, 06:44 PM
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Jackofalltradez,

The bottom line on how things work here is that the moderator structure here has the authority to moderate.
That is to control the tone and content of this site.

We do our best to get along here but considering the defiant tone of your first post this thread will now be closed and we will not consider allowing this endless discussion to carry on.

Your cooperation is expected.

Greg
 
 

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