220 at the socket but no power

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  #1  
Old 10-01-06, 08:37 AM
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220 at the socket but no power

i installed a whirlpool electric stove in a rent house, heres the problem, i plugged it up, the electronic display didn't work but i could turn the surface burners on, i checked all connections on the display board, everythings great, i put a meter at the plug and it read 231ac, i checked the stoves power supply it read 231ac. so anyway i have a stove with power that doesn't work, so right next door i have another house, i installed the stove, checked voltage 231ac plugged it in , worked great, so now i'm confused because i thought i had a bad stove, i took it back to the first house and it still doesn't work, i have power but the stove doesn't work in this house,,,,any ideas?

Edit to add: You should get 120 volt between each of the hots, and neutral on this plug.
 

Last edited by jwhite; 10-01-06 at 08:59 AM.
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  #2  
Old 10-01-06, 08:57 AM
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A stove is a 120/240 volt appliance. The 240 is used for the cooking elements and the 120 is tapped off of one leg of the 240 and the neutral to power the electronics and such.

It sounds like the neutral is open between the recepticle at the stove and the panel.

That being said, it is illegal where I live, and most places that I am aware of, for someone to do electrical work on a home that they do not own, and live in full time, unless that person is a licenced electrical contractor.

Since this is a rental property, I suggest that you tell the electrician, who you hire, that you suspect an open neutral on the range circuit.
 
  #3  
Old 10-01-06, 09:03 AM
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Bad neutral? The burners are 240 but the lights and electronics are probably 120v. To check the neutral you must measure between the neutral and each hot. You should get 120V. Use an analog volt meter if you have one. Is this a three prong or four prong receptacle?
 
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Old 10-01-06, 09:09 AM
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it is three prong, and also the house belongs to me, my wife and i purchased 26 rental properties out of the city limits inthe counrty
 
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Old 10-01-06, 09:26 AM
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Ranges and dryers require two hots and a neurtal to work properly as I said above.

In older versions of the code, it was sometimes allowd to use the neutral to also provide the equipment ground for the same appliance. This was done with a bonding strap inside the appliance near where the wires attach in the back.

Newer codes do not allow this, but they do allow you to keep using the old style if the wiring in the house was installed prior to the code changes. A grandfather clause if you will.

If there is a problem with the house wiring to this recepticle and you need to do repairs, you will need to upgrade the circuit to the current code. That means you will need to turn this into a four wire circuit. Two hots, one neutral and a ground. By repairs I mean if the wire is bad and needs to be replaced. You may get lucky and just find a bad connection at the recepticle or panel that can be fixed without replacing the wire..

With regard to doing the work yourself. I do not know the laws where you live. Where I live, if you rent any part of the building, be it one room, an appartment, or the entire structure, you must have a licenced electrical contractor do any electrical work to that building. I am not trying to be a pain, but if you do the work yourself, and something bad happened, you could have legal problems. The best thing to do would be to check with the local building department. They will be able to tell you the proper way to go about making these repairs, regarding permits etc in your area.
 
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Old 10-01-06, 09:32 AM
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if i lived in the city limits this would be a problem but since the houses are out of the city limits these laws are not a problem, i just need to correct the problem
 
  #7  
Old 10-01-06, 09:34 AM
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What do you get, when you test the circuit hot to neutral?
 
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Old 10-01-06, 09:37 AM
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One other thing to look for.

If you installed the 3 wire pigtail onto the appliance, where did you connect the 3rd wire? If you simply connected it to the frame ground, you would still need to install a bonding jumper per manufacturers directions to bond the neutral and the ground within the appliance.

What may be is that you simply have not hooked up the neutral within the appliance to anything.
 
  #9  
Old 10-01-06, 09:39 AM
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the top two prongs i get 240, left to bottom i get 120 and right to bottom iget 120 <outlet>
 
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Old 10-01-06, 09:45 AM
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nap, I was thinking the same thing, but rodten said that he draged the range next door and it worked. Not as easy as carrying a light around, but a good test.

I suspect that the recepticle may have gone bad and is not making proper contact to the range cord. When you put the tester in you can move it arround to find the contacts. The plug is more limited.

Another thought is that a tester draws little to no current. One can get a full voltage reading under test, but not get full voltage under load.

I would turn off power at the main breaker to the house, and check the recepticle, and the connections at the panel for obvious signs of a problem. If I did not find any, I would replace the range recepticle with the exact same kind. IMHO a direct replacement would not violate the grandfather clause.
 
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Old 10-01-06, 09:59 AM
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[QUOTE=jwhite]nap, I was thinking the same thing, but rodten said that he draged the range next door and it worked. Not as easy as carrying a light around, but a good test.

Ya, I see that. .......now.

Your advice sounds spot on.

Go for it rodten. Jeff has it down.


Man, dragging a stove around as a tester. I can truly think of easier ways to do this but apparently rodten is at least willing to work for an answer. That defines DIY.
 
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Old 10-01-06, 11:02 AM
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rodten, I hope you will reply and let us know what you find.

this is a real cliff hanger here. I just gotta know how it turns out....

Jeff
 
  #13  
Old 10-01-06, 03:53 PM
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i changed the plug out, its still reading 240/120 but the stove still doesn't work, the stove works next door but not in this house,for now i am stumped?????????????????
 
  #14  
Old 10-01-06, 05:20 PM
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For fun, drag the stove from the other house over to this one.

sort of kidding.

Did we ever figure out what type of tester you are using? If it is a DMM, get a solenoid type tester. These apply somewhat of a load on the circuit. It removes a lot of doubt and questions.


Ok, check connections time. Check at the recep, again, just to be sure.

In the panel, you should have a 2 pole breaker and the third wire attatched to the nuetral bar. Make sure they are all tight.

On the appliance itself. Check them just to make sure. You should have two hots and of course the neutral. There should be a neutral to ground nond in the appliance. Make sure it is there.

If everything looks, no, not looks, actually is good, then drag the neighbor stove over.Actually take the joints apart and remake them to be sure.


Not sure where else to look at the moment.
 
  #15  
Old 10-01-06, 09:18 PM
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well i just finished bringing over the neighbor and their friends stoves and a couple of more from down the street, still no luck, atcually we are having a big cook out, just kidding, i haven't had a chance to get back to it , this house is still empty, until thursday anyway, thanks for the imput..........?????????????
 
  #16  
Old 10-01-06, 11:36 PM
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try the breaker

Next you should check your breaker. The 220 breaker has two poles ...each one has to be pulling from a seperate 110 line. you can be getting 110 from each leg at the plug but if the breaker isn't stradling both legs of the main power feed then nothing will work.
 
  #17  
Old 10-02-06, 01:47 AM
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It definately sounds like an open neutral. If it is not at the recepicle then the problem is at the panel, or there is a probelm with the wire in between.
 
  #18  
Old 10-02-06, 08:29 AM
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My 2 cents: From all the previous posts the 240 volt accessories work but no 120 volt. I would have to agree with nap and Jw...problem with the neutral integrity. I'm curious how the neutral is landed in the main panel. If it isnt landed to the neutral bar then its a simple fix. But if it is open you would not get 120 volts hot to neutral as you describe.
If by chance the neutral is landed to a ground bar seperate from the neutral bar and no bonding exists between the two and the grounding electrode system is intact also connected to the ground bar you could get the voltage readings you describe but no 120 volt operation. You could also create this with a sub-panel not wired or bonded correctly.


This is of course a WAG, but it seems thats where we are at this point.

Roger
 
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