full panel

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Old 10-06-06, 11:49 AM
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full panel

I recently purchased a new welder and plasma cutter that both require 50 amps 220 volts. My intention was to use the circuit my hot tub is using by running a plug outside the breaker panel so I could unplug the hot tub and plug-in the other equipment when needed. The reason for this is a full panel. The problem Iím having is the hot tub breaker is a GFCI and works fine until the receptacle housing touches the receptacle box which is grounded to the panel. The breaker trips. Iím sure I could use a standard (non-GFCI) breaker but that would defeat my purpose. Any ideas?
 
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Old 10-06-06, 12:03 PM
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Do this properly. Install a sub panel, or install tandem breakers to free up space for additional breakers.
 
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Old 10-06-06, 12:12 PM
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I am very conserned about the recepticle housing touching the recepticle box tripping the gfi.

Not to be a PITA.. Ok I lied, To be a PITA , how much string and duct tape do you have holding the current system together?

IMHO you have two optioins.

First: Do proper load calculations on the entire house including the new equipment and then install a sub panel, if it will fit, and move the circuits needed to the new sub panel.

Last: Do not install the extra equipment.

Insurance concerns prohibit us from giving advice about how to do things in a less than professioinal manner.
 
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Old 10-06-06, 12:46 PM
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I have done proper load calculations and thereís not enough power for a sub-panel. I thought this would be a viable solution, only one device could be used at a time and thereís no duct tape in my panel. My dad is the duct tape King.
 
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Old 10-06-06, 05:16 PM
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Apparently you haven't done a load calculation. A sub-panel does not figure into a load calculation in any way, especially when the sub panel is ONLY because of lack of space in the main panel.
 
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Old 10-06-06, 09:12 PM
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So youíre telling me if I have a sub-panel installed and it has two 50 amp breakers in it, they donít figure into the total calculation???
 
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Old 10-07-06, 04:09 AM
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I am telling you that a load calculation determines the incoming power. It is based on the size of the house and whether or not there are certain types of appliances (like electric verses gas dryer, water heater, etc.).

A load calculation is not based on how many breakers you have.
 
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Old 10-07-06, 07:24 AM
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Maybe I am reading this a bit different than Bob but I think I may understand what the OP meant by "he did a load calc and there isn't enough power for a sub"


What I read this to mean is that when adding in the 2 additioanl 50 amp circuits, it exceeds the capacity of the service. It would make no diff if they are in a subpanel or in the main, merely their load is taken into consideration. If the addition of these exceeds the service cap, then the " there isn't enough power for a subpanel" then makes sense to me.

These 2 new loads are non coincidental loads, if the OP is the only one using any of them. This way, only the largest needs to be considered in a load calc. If the service will handle that, he can do it.

The bigger concern to me is the GFCI tripping. I'm not sure but it sounds a bit odd and possibley unsafe as is.
 
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Old 10-07-06, 07:43 AM
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Ok sorry about the duct tape comment.

I have to agree with nap. If you have one rec then the loads would be non-coincidental. Therefor you would only need to include the highest one in your load calc.

Fifty amp recs are large, and you may need to put it in a two gang box in order to have enough room for the rec and all the large wires.
 
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