What's with this Square D breaker?

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Old 10-29-06, 04:15 AM
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What's with this Square D breaker?

I'm running a new 20 amp 220/240 volt circuit to my current household electrical system to run a submersible 1/2 hp two wire 220/240 volt Goulds pump. I happened to have a spare D 30 amp 220 volt two pole breaker with nothing on it presently plugged into my Square D QO load center panel. My solution is to pop the 30 out and snap a new two pole 20 amp QO 220/240 volt breaker. Then, I shall plug in a 12/2 G UF cable and power the pump circuit going to a switch and then to pressure control in utility room and from there to pump motor in well.

So, I'm in the Home Depot store and I grab a 20 amp 2 pole Square D QO breaker out of the bin so I'm prepared for the task. Calling to mind the physical makeup of Square D QO breakers, they have four clamps on bottom where they attach to bars in panel. I have always noted two pole breakers have two on side of the bottom that you clamp on bar and then the breaker hinges down before you push on the inside of the breaker to snap the breaker on to the bar in panel. I get home and notice the breaker has only one clamp on the bottom. Whoa! Did I grab a defective one? I checked a couple of other breakers I had, the 220 volt 30 amp and 15 amp both had four total. Yet this one had only three clamps. To be more specific regarding the location of the missing copper clamps, if you were to install one on the right side of the panel,these clamps would be to the right. If you were to install this breaker on the left side, these clamp (s) should be on the left.

I'm thinking, no problem. I shall just drive to the local hardware store and grab a 20 amp version. I get there and find one left in the bin.............it's got only three clamps as well. Did Square D run short on those copper clamps for the bottoms of their breakers or could it be this is the way they now build the 20's. Stumped?

bs5
 

Last edited by bullshooter5; 10-29-06 at 04:53 AM.
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Old 10-29-06, 05:26 AM
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SQ D changed that some time ago. The new breakers have been clasiffied to work in any SQ D QO panel, so you are good to go.
 
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Old 10-29-06, 05:28 AM
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Exactly. The clamps you speak of are the ones that clip onto the mounting rails, not the buss.
You are fine.
 
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Old 10-29-06, 06:04 AM
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You have to look at it from a financial point of view.

10 cents per breaker times 14 million breakers, equals higher stock dividneds, a new boat, and finally that house in the hamptons.

For the manager. The engineer who came up with the idea got a coffee cup with his name on it, and a pat on the back.
 
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Old 10-29-06, 06:28 AM
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Thanks loads guys. Ill be firing up that pump very soon.

BTW, (just to confirm this) I will be wiring this circuit with 12/2 w G from QO Panel going to another room where pump is. Obviously both black and white wires are alternatively carrying 110 volts from and to pressure control switch at pressure tank and the supply which is in a different room. The pump will be a two wire Goulds 1/2 hp 240 volt model about 90' from supply panel. My point is, I want to place a switch at the room where the pressure tank is so the pump can be shut off/on. Had the supply breaker panel been accessible, the breaker switch would have served those needs. So I will use a switch at Jbox I place once supply enters the room where pressure switch is located.
I have purchased a special two pole (looks like a light switch)for this job. Sound OK?

Of course once outside, the feed line will be UF.

bs5
 
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Old 10-29-06, 06:50 AM
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bullshooter5,
Sounds like you have a good plan there. Just let me add a couple pointers, just in case you have not already worked these out. If you have disregard this post.

This circuit will never be carrying 120 volt. It will be carrying 240 volt hot to hot. You do not have a neutral.

The two pole switch is required. You should install it, schematically speaking, closer to the panel than the pressure switch.

You mentioned that you would "plug in" the UF cable. I do not know of a cord cap that is rated for UF. I would suggest that you just hard wire the UF into the system at the room where the pressure switch is.

You seem to have a very good understanding of what you are doing, so I suspect that all will go well.

Please post back if you have any other questions, or just to let us know how things worked out.
 
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Old 10-29-06, 08:06 AM
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You mentioned that you would "plug in" the UF cable. I do not know of a cord cap that is rated for UF. I would suggest that you just hard wire the UF into the system at the room where the pressure switch is.

Another option to consider, install a box with a rec. and cord and plug from it. additionaly with this set up you don't need the switch.
 
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Old 10-29-06, 10:50 AM
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You folks have offered some excellent suggestions. I'm all ears.
Let me tell you what is happening to the wire once it leaves the pressure switch and heads to the submersible pump, it has to go outside to the back of the house. Currently, I have two existing 12/2 g romex wires providing a couple 20 amp light and plug circuits for my garage which is 4' from the house. Conduit had to bridge from house to garage through the existing 3/4 conduit because of current concrete walks and deck making underground feed impossible.

I seriously doubt that I could add another 12/2 g through that same existing conduit even if I took it down and pulled three 12/2/g/ wires section by section. Am I on track here or could I sneak on more line in?


My solution is to unhook and pull the wire out and pitch the 3/4. I then went to Home Depot and grabbed four or five stick of 1" plastic carlon conduit and a bunch of neat fittings including a "tee" as this conduit goes by the utility room where I have to get in and out with the pump power supply. I will then pull three wires section by section gluing and clamping 1" carlon to the block wall as I go. Since my most direct path to the pump is through the garage I stay with 12/2 g romex replqcing the service to garage circuits and continuing toward the pump with the 220 volt circuit for the pump. Now, you are right I did say "plug in" the UF but I was just speaking figuratively. But at the point this wire departs the garage and heads for the pump
(10-15 feet from garage) I shall terminate the 12/2 romex, stick in a nice box and wire nut up with the UF cable because the rest of this road lies beneath the surface of the ground. I think in addition to the use of UF cable, i will stick this wire in a conduit so I never need to worry about hacking it with a shovel.

Well, there you have it. I had an electrician all lined up to do this job a week ago but he never showed and the well rig should be here tommorrow to drill the well. I need to go forward. Sure hope we get good water at a reasonable depth and we are expecting a well casing of fifty or less according to other wells in area.

Thanks for all the help and I will let you all know how it goes.

bs5
 
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Old 10-29-06, 10:58 AM
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Could you box both ends of the existing 3/4, then pull in thhn?Splicing the romex/uf as needed.
The conduit must be assembled first, don't glue as you go, this could ruin the insulation and wires
 
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Old 10-29-06, 12:11 PM
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<<The conduit must be assembled first, don't glue as you go, this could ruin the insulation and wires>> (lectriclee)
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Thanks Lee, I hadn't considered that. That glue is usually pretty potent stuff at that. I will make sure the joints have set before pulling the three 12/2's.

So far as the 3/4 conduit goes.......I dunno. if I can squeeze in another wire or not. If I could it would b the pump feed so would have to leave the conduit and get a connction at pressure switch, then return to that conduit to continue on to pump.

Thanks, if I can Home depot gets some 1" carlon back. I am thinking I will be better off starting from scratch in this particular situation. I will give it some thought. Thanks again.

bs5
 
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Old 10-29-06, 12:14 PM
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Wink

Good luck. Get some wire lube while your at the store, You wont regret it.
 
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Old 10-31-06, 04:37 AM
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What a good day, yesterday. The well driller successfully encased a new well for me and i nearly completed my wiring project. It was good I ended up pulling the existing wire from the 3/4 steel conduit as the new 1" plastic carlon proved very easy for me to work with. I greased up (as lee suggested) the three 12/2 g romex cables and actually pushed (not pulled)them down that nice carlon. Wire sure does slide nicely in that stuff. I think I mighty even run that pump supply cable through that old used 3/4" galvanized conduit for the underground portion of the circuit. I only need about 10 or 15' for the section where the pump feeder leaves the garage and travels underground. I will terminate the 12/2/G romex at a Jbox and take off with 12/2/UF also at this point.

Thanks for all the help.

bs5
 
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