Whirlpool bath w/ heater elec requirements

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Old 11-09-06, 01:25 PM
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Whirlpool bath w/ heater elec requirements

My neighbor wants to replace his whirlpool bath with a new Jacuzzi Espree 6042, with a 3/4 hp motor. He also wants to add their 200W inline thermostaticly controlled heater. Jacuzzi recommends a GFCI protected 15A circuit for the motor and another GFCI protected 15A circuit for the heater. His existing dedicated circuit is a GFCI protected 20A 12 gauge. He says the load is easily handled by the existing circuit and wants to run both the heater and motor on it. What do you all advise? Is this safe, or is it a code violation?

-halfwit
 
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Old 11-09-06, 01:28 PM
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If the manufacturer calls for two dedicated circuits then he needs two dedicated circuits. Doing otherwise, even if it worked, is wrong.
 
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Old 11-09-06, 03:26 PM
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That's my position. I advised him to run another GFCI protected 15A circuit for the heater, and replace the 20A breaker on the 12 gauge existing with a 15A GFCI breaker. Convincing him, well, that's another story.
 
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Old 11-09-06, 03:54 PM
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Thumbs down

He won't have a bit of problem if he runs either the heater or the pump one at a time and never experiences an electrical short that kills the heater or the pump before the 20a breaker trips.

I think the cost of that tub equipment is high enough that a second circuit and a new 15a breaker is justified, don't you ?

But hey, maybe the manufacturer is just being silly !
 
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Old 11-09-06, 04:17 PM
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> He says the load is easily handled by the existing circuit

Probably true. In all likelyhood there would be no problem with doing so; however...

> Is this safe, or is it a code violation?

In my opinion, both; violating a manufacturer's installation instructions is technically a violation even if you do your own calculations and determine that the existing circuit would not be overloaded. Appliances are tested by a lab like UL for safety based on the manufacturer's specs; wiring the tub a different way doesn't mean that it's unsafe, it just means that it hasn't been tested and proved safe in that configuration and therefore is not compliant.

I think your neighbor would be well advised to install the second circuit and use 15A GFCI breakers as per installation instructions.
 
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Old 11-09-06, 04:35 PM
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One more point I forgot to add:

Violating the installation instructions gives the manufacture an easy-out of performing any warranty work. If you read the fine print of the warranty, there's always a clause that allows them to deny any claims if the installation was incorrect.
 
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Old 11-09-06, 08:31 PM
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"He won't have a bit of problem if he runs either the heater or the pump one at a time"

Thanks, Pyzon, but it doesn't look like it will be a problem on a 20A circuit. The heater is a small 200W unit that would never kick on until after the motors starting demand ended.

"and never experiences an electrical short that kills the heater or the pump before the 20a breaker trips."

See, that's what I'm worried about. I tried to tell him that yes, he wouldn't experience any trouble until there was a problem, but if there was a problem, then he would have a bigger problem. I've also advised him that violating a manufacturers instructions violates the warranty, and that in the event of any catastrophe, any insurance investigation that might be done would negate his coverage.

ibpooks,

Your post was pretty much my conversation with him, it's just how he's one of those guys that needs a slap-down in the form of written regulation in order to get him off his load calculations, and start him thinking about possible repercussions.

I want to thank you guys for your posts, and if I can't give him a solid no-go in terms of code, at least I can tell him that nobody knowledgeable thinks this is a good idea.

After that, it's up to him. Thanks again!

-halfwit
 
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Old 11-09-06, 09:16 PM
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Generally speaking, you will fail inspection if you don't follow the manufacturer's instructions when it comes to circuit size. Now I realize this is probably not being inspected, but ask him if he would rather install the extra circuit now or when he tries to sell the house and some prospective buyer says it has to be done or the sale won;t happen.
 
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Old 11-09-06, 09:43 PM
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Wink

Originally Posted by ibpooks
One more point I forgot to add:

Violating the installation instructions gives the manufacture an easy-out of performing any warranty work. If you read the fine print of the warranty, there's always a clause that allows them to deny any claims if the installation was incorrect.
Thats all he is worried about!? What about the "Cutie" he brings home? The kids? you? his mom? The neighbors? Himself? etc.

I suppose avoiding the right way, may save a buck. Me, I'ld stay on the deck, And enjoy the veiw.

"Dumb ***"!
 

Last edited by DIYaddict; 11-10-06 at 07:13 AM.
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Old 11-10-06, 04:49 AM
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Wink

Update:

I made him read this thread.

He is now going to have an electrician install a second circuit. To be honest, I think it was the "Dumb Ass" comment that turned the tide. Thanks, lectriclee.

You guys rock!

P.S. I ain't getting in that thing, even if it's safe. Too weird.
 
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Old 04-01-07, 04:17 PM
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inline heater for tub

I have just installed a new jetted tub and plan on adding an inline heater. The heater comes with #8 solid copper wire and instructions show where to hook this up on the heater.

I have no idea where to attach the other end. All the instructions states “bond the heater as per approved local bonding codes. A bonding lug is provided on the heater”

I did a search on the internet – one place stated to bond to the hot & cold water pipes. What is Bonding??

Please help!
Linda
 
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Old 04-01-07, 06:25 PM
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There should be a location on the tub or the pump for the tub to bond the heater to.
 
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Old 11-24-07, 07:47 AM
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Cool bonding pump motor

It is clear that the heater needs to bond to the pump motor, but where do you bond the motor when the tub is fiberglass and the plumbing is all plastic? Do the faucets and other metal in the vicinity such as the sink faucets need to be bonded?
 
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Old 12-04-07, 01:31 PM
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I thought it was bond between the pump/motor and the junction box?


As far as teh earlier part of this thread, I have a similar tub (espree 6060) and am a little confused on the electric.

As noted, the heater and the motor clearly need separate 15a GFCI breakers. My question is, and probably a dumb one, does that mean two separate wires from the breakers in the breaker box (in the basement) being run to two separate outlet/junction boxes at the location of the tub?
 
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Old 12-04-07, 01:35 PM
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You really should start a separate thread for a separate question.

Two separate circuits can be run to the same junction box. You could even use one cable assembly and run a multi-wire circuit.
 
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Old 12-04-07, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by racraft View Post
You really should start a separate thread for a separate question.

Two separate circuits can be run to the same junction box. You could even use one cable assembly and run a multi-wire circuit.
Thank you for the info. I think I was on topic, but the ground/bond issue hijacked the original topic of two separate circuits on a jacuzzi espree tub. I did my DD by searching before posting

regardless, thanks.
 
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