distance of 20 amp circuit

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Old 12-21-06, 11:45 AM
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distance of 20 amp circuit

howdy...was wondering what most of the pros use when running new circuits to a kitchen that is 65-75 feet feet from service panel....microwave oven? dishwaher? kitchen counter circuits? do you use #12 or # 10 for these type of circuits..? or is it better/ cheaper to run a 100 amp sub panel below kitchen area?
 
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Old 12-21-06, 11:50 AM
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Sorry I deleted my first reply as I may have misunderstood what your after here. Are you just wanting to know if the voltage drop is going to cause an up size in the normal wire you would run for these circuits at the mentioned distances?

Roger
 
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Old 12-21-06, 12:14 PM
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> new circuits to a kitchen that is 65-75 feet feet from service panel
> ....microwave oven? dishwaher? kitchen counter circuits?

All on 20A circuits with #12 wire; possibly multi-wire circuits with 12/3. At theoretical full load, you'd have about 5% voltage drop, and at 80% load you have 3.8% voltage drop; or half of that with MWCs. This is within normal limits for a branch circuit.

> cheaper to run a 100 amp sub panel below kitchen area?

It definitely would not be cheaper, but it could be better depending on how difficult the 75 foot run is to fish the branch circuit cables or some other factor like cost of breakers for the main panel.
 
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Old 12-23-06, 08:37 AM
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If I were putting in several new circuits to the kitchen I would use 12-3 wire. This will give you 2 circuits. At the service you have two 20 amp breakers. One for the red and one for the black wire. You have the neutral and the ground. They do make 12-4 wire though I have never found it at Home Depot. This would allow you to run 3 circuits. With 12-4 you have a red, black, blue or some other color such as yellow or brown which are the designated hot wires and a white (neutral) and a ground. The 12-4 is pretty expensive (what isn't) and is hard to find. A dishwasher often only requires a 15 amp circuit, but running a 20 amp circuit is ok for the dishwasher. But, in the kitchen most circuits will be 20 amp which requires 12 guage wire.
 
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Old 12-23-06, 08:53 AM
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Axis, 12/4 will not, repeat NOT, let you run three circuits. Not unless your house has a three-phase service. Which I guarantee it doesn't.
Pretty much no homes do, at least those anyone would DIY in. Meaning those in excess of 20k or so sq/ft.
 
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Old 12-23-06, 08:53 AM
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I understand that there is a 12-4 romex type wire available with one each of black, red, white with black tracer and white with a red tracer. This would give you two circuits with each having its own neutral. Using regular 12-4 would not be allowed unless you are installing a multiwire circuit from a 3 phase panel.

Unless you fully understand how a multiwire circuit operates, it's a lot safer for the average HO to just install regular 2 wire circuits. I personally never install multiwire circuits in residential because of the dangers of abuse later on.
 
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Old 12-23-06, 10:42 AM
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Cable that has four 12 gage insulated conductors and one bare 12 gage ground is either called 12-2-2 or 12-4.

Most of the time it is similar to what yanici is describing, so you can run two neutrals and two hots OR three hots and one neutral. You could also use it to run four hots (such as in a switch loop).

Sometimes it is black, read, blue and white solid colors. This would NOT allow use on a setup requiring two neutrals.
 
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Old 12-23-06, 12:25 PM
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Thank you for the info on the 12-4 wire.
 
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