can i use 14/2 here?? power??


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Old 12-25-06, 07:15 AM
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Unhappy can i use 14/2 here?? power??

hi: i want to add 3 lights in my basement wall (small spot lights) can i take power from the outlet below the lights or i have to run a new wire to the panel? the outlets below is using 12/2 wire and the lights im triying to install are using 14/2 its ok to use both wires? the panel breaker is a 20amp..thank you
 
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Old 12-25-06, 07:26 AM
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It is always best to run a new circuit for lighting. Face it, when you work on lights, you have to turn them off and you are in the dark. If your receptacles are wired separately, then you can at least plug in a lamp to see by. In addition, the wiring will have to be 12-2 since you are using a 20 amp breaker. If you run a new circuit, then you can use a 15 amp breaker and the 14-2 for the run. The 14-2 is much easier to run as well.
 
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Old 12-25-06, 07:42 AM
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all the lights in my basement are running in a separated run i just want 3 lil spot lights on top of pictures in the wall...i was planning to add a switch so i can turn on/off sometimes.. thats why i was thinking in take the power out of the outlet (depend what you guys advise)..


outlet - switch-light 1 -light 2 - light 3


i use 12/2 wire in outlet cause my friend give me 100 feet of extra wire if not i would used 14.. now i only have lots of 14's thats why i was thinking to use that for lights but i dont know if i can mix 14 wit 12 (i can change breaker to 15amp if necesary because i dont use too many outlets)
 
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Old 12-25-06, 07:49 AM
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Do not use the 14 gage wire on this existing circuit. If you do you will have to change the breaker to be a 15 amp breaker. This will give you 25 percent less power available on the circuit and MAY confuse some later on when they see 12 gage wire in the panel and a 20 amp breaker.

Either connect to a 15 amp circuit using your 14 gage wire, or run a new 15 amp circuit with your 14 gage wire, or use 12 gage wire to connect to your 20 amp circuit.
 
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Old 12-25-06, 08:21 AM
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in order to wire the lights on the 20 amp receptacle circuit that you are talking about, you would have to do the following in order for the installation to be national electrical code compliant (12/2 off the 20amp receptacle to feed the lights)

if you are intent on wiring these lights in 14/2, the only legal way would be to change the 20 amp receptacle out for a 15 amp receptacle, and also change out the 20 amp breaker for a 15 amp breaker.

you can not just change out the breaker to a 15 amp breaker, you must change both.

if you were to change only the breaker toa 15 amp breaker, and left the 20 amp receptacle ( then it would be possible to plug in a 20 amp load into the receptacle, which is only being protected by a 15 amp outlet ******totaly illegal**** per 2005 NEC)
 
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Old 12-25-06, 08:40 AM
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Smile

Dodge you would be correct in saying that the receptacle cannot exceed the breaker size, but this only applies if the circuit supplies a single receptacle. According to 2005 NEC 210.20.(B)(3) and table 210.21(B)(3) if there are two or more receptacles on the circuit they may be rated at either 20 or 15 amp. So it would be ok to change to a 15 amp breaker without changing the receptacles if there are two or more.
 
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Old 12-25-06, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by yanici View Post
Dodge you would be correct in saying that the receptacle cannot exceed the breaker size, but this only applies if the circuit supplies a single receptacle. According to 2005 NEC 210.20.(B)(3) and table 210.21(B)(3) if there are two or more receptacles on the circuit they may be rated at either 20 or 15 amp. So it would be ok to change to a 15 amp breaker without changing the receptacles if there are two or more.
Yanici, it is you who are mistaken. If the circuit is 20 amps it can have only one or more 20 amp recs, but not one 15 amp rec.

If this circuit is protected at 15 amps it may not have any 20 amp recs attached. Table 210.21(B)(3) or Table 210.24
 
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Old 12-25-06, 10:07 AM
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Talking

Jeff, one of us has had too much egg nog. I meant to say that you can use either 15 or 20 amp receptacles on a 20 amp circuit if there are two or more installed.

My bad.
 

Last edited by yanici; 12-25-06 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 12-25-06, 10:19 AM
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yanci, it must be you. You responded to a post that said that if the op changed the breaker to a 15 amp breaker he must also change the recs to 15 amp recs.

I agree with the post. If you change the breaker to 15 amps you now have a 15 amp circuit. 20 amp recs would not be allowed.
 
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Old 12-25-06, 11:11 AM
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Talking

I'm joining AA tomorrow. Not today though.
 
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Old 12-25-06, 03:25 PM
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so i can use 12 gauge wire the same way im using 14 , making sure that i use 15amp breaker and outlet? i used 12 in outlets cause i get it free no because i will use lot of power , i gonna use outlets maybe for a tv , vacum and small items..
 
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Old 12-25-06, 03:34 PM
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amigo,

To make it easier and more accurate to respond, please tell us where you live. Ideally, update your profile so this information is visible to everyone.

A vacuum cleaner is no small item. Some of them easily take 10 or 12 amps and will trip a breaker on an already heavily loaded circuit. Dropping this circuit down to 15 a,ps will mean a loss in available power of 25 percent. In my opinion you would be foolish to do this just to save perhaps a few dollars.

As I said before, using 14 gage wire on this circuit might lead to confusion later on. Why chance it? Fires are never a good thing when it;s your house burning.

You will still have to go and buy a 154 amp circuit breaker. Why not just go and buy 12 gage wire instead, and do the job the right way? A job worth doing is worth doing right.
 
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Old 12-25-06, 03:45 PM
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11 lights (60 watts ) is too much for a 15amp circuit? that way i use 20amp just for outlets and add the 3 spot lights to the lights run in ceiling
 
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Old 12-25-06, 03:51 PM
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11 lights at 60 watts is 660 watts. This not too much for a 15 amp circuit. A 15 amp circuit, at continuous load, can supply 1440 watts, which is more than double the 660 watts you presently have.

However, you need to base your wiring on the maximum wattage per light. So if those lights can actually be as high as 100 watts, then your circuit would presently max out at 1100 watts. Even so, this would still leave 340 watts at continuous load for your three spot lights.
 
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Old 12-25-06, 03:53 PM
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problem solve!! thank you all!!!!




Originally Posted by racraft View Post
11 lights at 60 watts is 660 watts. This not too much for a 15 amp circuit. A 15 amp circuit, at continuous load, can supply 1440 watts, which is more than double the 660 watts you presently have.

However, you need to base your wiring on the maximum wattage per light. So if those lights can actually be as high as 100 watts, then your circuit would presently max out at 1100 watts. Even so, this would still leave 340 watts at continuous load for your three spot lights.
 
 

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