250 V down to 220V
#1
01-24-07, 05:17 PM
250 V down to 220V
I picked up a 220V welder for my garage today. I currently have a 250V-30A dedicated plug that i was going to use for the welder. How do i step it down to 220V ? Thanx in advance.
Mark.
Mark.
#2
01-24-07, 05:23 PM
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The 250v receptacle is correct for this application. There is no such thing as a "220v" receptacle.
#3
01-24-07, 05:26 PM
There is no common source of 250 volts in the US. Devices like plugs and receptacles which are intended for use on common 220/230/240 volt circuits are usually design rated at 250. If your welder is rated for a 30 amp circuit, it should plug right in. If it doesn't, you may need to have an electrician look at the welder and look at your circuit to see if there is a way for them to go together.
#4
01-24-07, 05:38 PM
The welder is rated for 30A. The receptical looks like -.- instead of '.' to match up to the welder cord. So does this mean all i have to do is replace the recepticle? Sorry for my ignorance. Household wiring is something new for me.
#5
01-24-07, 05:53 PM
well, I'm not 100% sure since your pictorials are limited by what can be posted but the first one appears to be a NEMA 6-15 which is a 250 15 amp rated recep and the second one (if it is a 250 volt recep) appears to be a 50 amp recep.
a 50 amp recep is going to be quite a bit larger that the 15 amp one. the 15 amp one is similar in size to a standard 120 volt recep.
here is a website that show the various recep configs.
http://www.hubbell-canada.com/wiring/bryant/pdf/b/b5.pdf
take a look to see if you can find it.
a 50 amp recep is going to be quite a bit larger that the 15 amp one. the 15 amp one is similar in size to a standard 120 volt recep.
here is a website that show the various recep configs.
http://www.hubbell-canada.com/wiring/bryant/pdf/b/b5.pdf
take a look to see if you can find it.
#6
01-24-07, 06:01 PM
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#7
01-24-07, 06:43 PM
Whoops, missed that one.
Petey would be correct. Rather than a 15 amp, I am sure it is a 30 amp. Fatigue must be setting in.
I don;t have the code handy at the moment. Maybe petey would continue on with the correct OCPD for this welder and which would/should be changed, either the recep or the plug.
In other words, is it legit to change the recep to a 50 but still use the 30 amp wiring. Without my code book, I'm at a loss as to the correct or allowable configuration.
markcarla: is the breaker for this circuit a 30 amp as you originally stated? and what size conductors are attached to it?
Petey would be correct. Rather than a 15 amp, I am sure it is a 30 amp. Fatigue must be setting in.
I don;t have the code handy at the moment. Maybe petey would continue on with the correct OCPD for this welder and which would/should be changed, either the recep or the plug.
In other words, is it legit to change the recep to a 50 but still use the 30 amp wiring. Without my code book, I'm at a loss as to the correct or allowable configuration.
markcarla: is the breaker for this circuit a 30 amp as you originally stated? and what size conductors are attached to it?
#8
01-24-07, 06:57 PM
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I think first we need to determine the actual specs for the welder.
Codes for welders are quite different than other loads. Same goes for motors.
It is likely that it would be ok to use the "30 amp wiring" on a 50 amp receptacle and breaker, IF, IF, it is used solely for a welder.
I myself do NOT like to use this section of the code for residential welders/receptacles. You never know who will come along later and plug in let's say..a kiln.
That said, IMO this is not wiring a welder. It is wiring a receptacle. You just happen to be plugging in a welder.
Start with the specs of the welder and let's go from there.
Codes for welders are quite different than other loads. Same goes for motors.
It is likely that it would be ok to use the "30 amp wiring" on a 50 amp receptacle and breaker, IF, IF, it is used solely for a welder.
I myself do NOT like to use this section of the code for residential welders/receptacles. You never know who will come along later and plug in let's say..a kiln.
That said, IMO this is not wiring a welder. It is wiring a receptacle. You just happen to be plugging in a welder.
Start with the specs of the welder and let's go from there.
#9
01-24-07, 07:07 PM
The welder is a Hobart handler 187. Amp range 25-185amps. 230 V Input voltage. Duty cycle 30% @ 130A .The breaker is a 30A, but as for conductors, i'm unsure of the size. I can look tomorrow. I belive the outlet was originally used for a shop heater by the previous owner. Is there any more info you would need?
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01-24-07, 07:36 PM
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Yes, the input amps. The output amps is a useless number in determining the circuit.
Also, yes, the conductor size is very important, although I suspect #10cu.
Also, yes, the conductor size is very important, although I suspect #10cu.
#11
01-24-07, 07:39 PM
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Bingo, easy. 20.5 amps rated input @ 230v. Right from Hobart's site.
http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/pdf/spec_sheets/Handler_187.pdf
Your 30 amp circuit is perfect.
http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/pdf/spec_sheets/Handler_187.pdf
Your 30 amp circuit is perfect.
#12
01-24-07, 08:42 PM
I thought it may be of interest to show the operators manual for this welder to give example to what was referred to earlier as to allowing small wire and a bigger breaker due to the duty cycles of welders. Notice with this welder the manufacturer is allowing 14 awg copper for a minimum wire size and a 25 amp breaker for maximum ocpd.
They also are calling for a 6-50R and 6-50P. I find that really odd given the specifications.
http://www.hobartwelders.com/om/6digit/o228187a_hob.pdf
Go to page 19 and 20
Roger
They also are calling for a 6-50R and 6-50P. I find that really odd given the specifications.
http://www.hobartwelders.com/om/6digit/o228187a_hob.pdf
Go to page 19 and 20
Roger
Last edited by Roger; 01-24-07 at 11:57 PM. Reason: Change wording
#13
01-25-07, 12:46 AM
Hi Roger, If I may share my thoughts.
Going on the specs alone (a primary current of 20.5 amps and a 30% duty cycle), the minimum ampacity of the supply conductors would be 11 amps (20.5 X .55). Section 630.11.
The maximum OCPD for this welder would be 45 amps (20.5 amps X 200%). Section 630.12(A)
The maximum OCPD using 14AWG supply conductors would be 40 amps (20 amps X 200%). Section 630.12(B)
Given that the specs could allow a 45 amp circuit, a 50 amp plug and receptacle would be required. Section 210.21(B)(1) and (B)(3)
That said, I agree with speedy. While the rules restrict this use to a particular welder, nothing else does. Unless the allowed use is made absolutely clear, a circuit wired like this is a hazard.
Thanks
Going on the specs alone (a primary current of 20.5 amps and a 30% duty cycle), the minimum ampacity of the supply conductors would be 11 amps (20.5 X .55). Section 630.11.
The maximum OCPD for this welder would be 45 amps (20.5 amps X 200%). Section 630.12(A)
The maximum OCPD using 14AWG supply conductors would be 40 amps (20 amps X 200%). Section 630.12(B)
Given that the specs could allow a 45 amp circuit, a 50 amp plug and receptacle would be required. Section 210.21(B)(1) and (B)(3)
That said, I agree with speedy. While the rules restrict this use to a particular welder, nothing else does. Unless the allowed use is made absolutely clear, a circuit wired like this is a hazard.
Thanks
#14
01-25-07, 09:14 AM
Thanks Juhl... that would make sense. I ran those same figures out last night and was about to post them... then decided maybe better get another opinion. What gave me concern was that one is required to install according to the manufacturing listing and labeling. The manufacturer lists a max. breaker of 25 amps.
At any rate in order to use the 50 amp plug they would have to be making the calculations you posted, then applying those code articles.
Thanks Roger
At any rate in order to use the 50 amp plug they would have to be making the calculations you posted, then applying those code articles.
Thanks Roger
