Kitchen Feeds

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  #1  
Old 04-16-07, 09:56 AM
T
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Kitchen Feeds

We are setting up a new kitchen and will be putting in circuits for the following:

Above counter outlets (#12 / 20 amp / 1-pole)
Refridgerator (#12 / 20 amp / 1-pole)
Dishwasher / Garbage disposal (#12 / 20 amp / 1-pole)
Kitchen lighting (#12 / 20 amp / 1-pole)
Gas range igniter / Ventilation blower motor (#12 / 20 amp / 1-pole)
Combination Thermador Oven/Microwave/Warming Drawer (#6 / 60 amp / 2 pole)

Does this look correct or should the circuits be divided differently? Is there any issue with the Dishwasher and Garbage disposal sharing the same circuit? Do you only need one circuit for the outlets? Are GFCI outlets only necessary for the above counter outlets or do we need them for other circuits?
 
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Old 04-16-07, 11:08 AM
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Not an expert, but things I've learned:

* kitchens should have two separate countertop circuits. (you need to add one).

* dishwasher and disposal *may* be on same circuit, but separate is preferred.

* GFCI for countertop circuits (at least the first outlet in the circuit). Not necessary for other appliances, especially those with motors (like refrigerators).

Good luck!
 
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Old 04-16-07, 11:39 AM
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Despite Q Brizzle's assertion that he is no expert, he sounds like one to me.

You have overkill in some areas (like putting the lighting on a separate 20-amp circuit), so why not splurge a bit and put the dishwasher and disposal on separate circuits. It's usually not absolutely necessary, but is a good idea anyway. Some time in the future, you may want that 2HP super-deluxe garbage disposal and that dishwasher with the hot-wax feature. If you need to cut back elsewhere to have room, then put the lighting and gas range accessories on the same circuit.
 
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Old 04-16-07, 11:52 AM
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> Is there any issue with the Dishwasher and Garbage disposal sharing

In my opinion, no. Some people recommend separate circuits, but I feel it's overkill. Unless you have a monstrous disposal or dishwasher with a huge heater, code allows them to share.

> Do you only need one circuit for the outlets?

You need a minimum of two 20A "small appliance circuits" which serve kitchen countertop receptacles, dining areas, and/or pantry areas. Run another 20A circuit with #12/2 to the countertop area and you'll be all set.

> GFCI outlets

For the circuits you listed, GFCI protection is only required for the countertop receptacles. GFCI is neither required nor desirable on the fridge circuit as a false trip could cost you a lot in spoiled food.
 
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Old 04-16-07, 12:55 PM
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Kitchen

What is the point of the two circuits for receptacles? Are you supposed to run each circuit to alternate outlets.

For example, if I have four above-counter outlets and I have two circuits. How should I wire them?
 
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Old 04-16-07, 01:09 PM
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What is the point of the two circuits for receptacles?
You'll find you can hit 20A pretty quickly when you have your microwave, toaster oven, blender, and breadmaker all running at the same time. Granted, one 20A _might_ be enough, but it doesn't matter anyway, since the NEC states a MINIMUM of two 20A circuits for only the countertop.

It doesn't matter how you split the circuits, though give a bit of thought as to where you might be using your larger "small appliances". In my kitchen, there are two main prep areas, so each prep area has it's own circuit, and the smaller countertop areas share those two.

If you have 4 receptacles, I'd put two on each circuit.
BTW - do you think 4 receptacles is enough? You know they have to be spaced so that a receptacle is a minimum of 2' from the sink or countertop end, and 4' between receptacles. Also consider what you may plug in where. Unless you have a pretty small kitchen, I'd plan on more than 4. (I just installed 10 countertop receptacles for a reasonably-sized kitchen)

Note, in Canada, they do require that the outlets are split (top receptacle circuit A - bottom receptacle circuit B) - but that's way overkill in my (not so professional) opinion.

-Mike
 

Last edited by Zorfdt; 04-16-07 at 01:12 PM. Reason: small addition - fingers were faster than my brain.
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Old 04-16-07, 01:53 PM
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Thermador

NICE APPLIANCE!! However you may want to recheck the electrical specs. The microwave and the warming drawer are most likely 120 volts plug in units and may require their own circuits.
 
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Old 04-17-07, 02:43 AM
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Kitchen

Great info, thank you. As for the inspection process, I have run the necessary Romex NM wires through our unfinished attic and tied them down every few feet. I left a few feet of wire unattached by the breaker panel for each run. I intend to route each wire down to the outlet box where it goes and leave out a few feet.

My understanding is that the inspectors normally want to see it like this before you connect up the outlets and connect the wires to the breaker panel.

Do inspectors normally stop out twice for electrical inspections, once for open and once for all closed up? Is there a certain length of wire necessary that you need to leave extra on either end for the open inspection? I heard a story where an inspector failed someone because they left only ten inches of extra wire out of the outlets on a new home. They had to rewire the whole house!
 
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Old 04-17-07, 07:43 AM
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> Do inspectors normally stop out twice for electrical inspections

There are usually two inspections: a rough and a final. The rough inspection should be done with the walls still open and no drywall or insulation. The inspector will be looking for proper cable installation technique such as staples, box mounting, holes bored at the correct depth, and steel protection plates where needed. Some inspectors also like to see the NM cable sheathing stripped at the boxes and the grounds made up before the rough inspection.

The final inspection is done after all receptacles, switches and faceplates have been installed and power is turned on.

> ten inches of extra wire

Unless you have a local code that requires this, national code only requires six inches of wire to extend outside the box. So with a 2" deep box, you would need to leave 8" of cable. Leaving a foot hanging out is pretty wasteful as the 4" pieces you trim off the end go straight to the garbage. Check with the local inspector if you're unsure as local rules do vary.
 
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Old 04-17-07, 08:11 AM
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I'm sure everyone has their own process, but I like mounting the boxes first, then run the cables right into the boxes, leaving the 8-10" sticking out. Prior to the rough inspection, I strip the sheathing off, connect all the grounds and anything else that has to be wire-nutted together, and leave the pigtails sticking out of the wall for the inspector to see.
During my last inspection, the inspector 'dinged' me for missing tying some grounds together. Granted, it still passed overall, but he did want to see everything "device ready".

(I got the feeling that you were planning on not installing boxes for your rough inspection - I'm sure you'll need to)

After the rough inspection, all the wires get rolled up neatly to the back of the boxes, drywall goes up, and after painting, the devices go in. The final inspection is when everything is totally finished.

-Mike
 
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Old 04-17-07, 08:30 AM
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Tie downs

We intend to remodel an existing room. I am running five cables to the kitchen area through the attic and down the walls to the respective outlets.

When going from the attic down the wall to the outlet, can you just punch a hole for the outlet and drop the cable down from the attic behind the wall or do you need to remove the entire wall and then attach it to the wall every few feet? If you need to attach to the wall, how often do you have to secure it?

Our house is in Florida and the room where it is going has 10" CBS walls with 3/4" thick furring strips attached to the concrete using RamSets with sheetrock screwed on top to the furring strips. With only 3/4" to work with, I assume that I will need to chip a small hole in the CBS to fit the gang box.
 
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Old 04-17-07, 11:23 AM
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> 3/4" thick furring strips attached to the concrete

You should really discuss this with the inspector before you begin. I do not believe that your wall is thick enough for a legal in-wall installation. You may need to either build the wall out or use surface-mounted wiring in EMT or Wiremold conduit.
 
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