Pool Install Ground


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Old 04-27-07, 06:32 AM
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Pool Install Ground

Location: Wake County NC
Project: In Ground Pool
Question: Ground wire type required

I have trenched 24 inches (only 18 required) and laid 1" nonmetalic (electrical PVC) in the trench from the wet niche lights to a distribution panel.

The wet niches have two ground posts: one on the outside (buried) and one on the inside (submerged). The light conduit will have water inside it by design up to the pools water level. Any wires in the conduit will be submerged in pool water until the conduit rises above the water level. I really do not like this design, but that's the way it is meant to be installed.
Lights are 500 Watts each, 120V.

I have connected the buried post with solid #6 bare copper (#8 required min) to a copper lug on the pool frame with stainless hardware. Both connections are covered with 3M #2135 potting compound.

The submerged post must be connected with #8 insulated copper and this ground wire must accompany the fixture wiring to the panel (and also be covered with 2135 at the post).

The only #8 solid insulated (green) wire I can find locally is TW, which is only good for 60 degrees c. Wake County has it's own requirements and I am not having any success with return phone calls.

According to NEC, I believe I must have THW or THWN or THHW in the conduit.

I this correct? Or can I use the TW?
 
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Old 04-27-07, 11:36 AM
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The TW is fine.

Yes, the conduit will be filled with water. This is correct.

You also need "deck boxes" immediately after the wet niche. You CANNOT run directly from the wet niche to a panel or switch box.

I suggest you read up on in-ground pool wiring. This is no place to mess around or learn as you go.

See this page for some reference:
http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/homewiringusa/2002/accessory/poolperm/index.htm
 
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Old 04-27-07, 11:55 AM
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Thanks for the link... I needed that!
 
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Old 04-27-07, 12:15 PM
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I found this in there...

BOTH THE PUMP MOTOR, AND THE UNDERWATER LIGHT FIXTURE SHALL BE A SEPARATE POWER RUN {ONE POWER RUN EACH }, AND SHALL BE DIRECTLY CONNECTED, FROM THE PANEL TO THE LIGHT FIXTURE, AND DIRECTLY FROM THE PANEL TO THE PUMP MOTOR EACH AS TWO DEDICATED CIRCUITS . THESE POWER RUNS SHALL BE WITHOUT ANY ELECTRICAL JOINTS, UNLESS, MORE THAN ONE UNDERWATER LIGHT IS INSTALLED {FORM LIGHT TO LIGHT TYPE OF JUNCTION }. AN EXCEPTION TO THIS NO JUNCTION ALLOWED RULE IS A JOINT, AS ALLOWED, FOR A GFI, OR A SWITCH CONTROLLING THE PUMP MOTOR, OR A SWITCH OR GFI AS ALLOWED CONTROLLING THE UNDERWATER LIGHT, ON THE DEDICATED ELECTRICAL CIRCUIT COMING FROM THE PANEL. ALL OF THESE CONDUCTORS SHALL BE INSULATED, INCLUDING THE GROUNDING WIRE.

I was planning on running the pump and the lights all directly back to the panel with no junction boxes (indicated above?).

Now I'm a bit confused?
 
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Old 04-27-07, 01:17 PM
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I must say I never read that part. That is totally wrong.

Here is a good visual of what I am talking about. Scroll down to the first image:
http://www.codecheck.com/pg29__electrical.html
 
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Old 04-27-07, 04:46 PM
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It's also listed in the 2005 NEC (680.23 (A) (1)). Junction box will be used for the niches.
 
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Old 04-28-07, 11:57 AM
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Okay... the minimum distance is 4 feet from the wet niche to the junction box. Apparently, there is no "maximum"... so with unmodified (factory) lights with long chords, the junction boxes could be installed near the panel instead of near the lights?

I realize it all depends on the inspectors mood for the day (and the NEC), but would that possibly fly?
 
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Old 04-28-07, 09:29 PM
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yes. Dont forget to run an insulated #8 green wire in the pipe along with the factory cord. There will be a ground lug inside the case of the wet niche fixture to land this #8 on. Also, you'll need a listed potting compound to cover the #8 termination in the fixture.
Good luck!
 
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Old 05-02-07, 06:20 AM
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I already used the 3m #2135 compound for the ground on the outside of the wet niche. I covered the bonding post on the niche, and the copper lug & stainless hardware where I attached it to the pool frame. I bought a copy of the NEC last night because I was getting conflicting information from several sources (licensed electricians).

Unless I read it wrong, the NEC allows stranded or solid for the inside ground. But my local code requires solid. So I will use #8 solid insulated & buy another package of 2135 compound.

The code also indicates that I have to use compound on the cord where it enters the fixture. Did I read that right? This is a pool light... made just for pools & spas. It is factory sealed for wet locations. Do I still have to compound the cord where it enters the fixture?
 
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Old 05-02-07, 12:47 PM
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You do NOT need potting compound for anything but the internal bond of the forming shell. The external bond does not require it.

Where do you see it required for the cord entrance?
 
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Old 05-02-07, 01:14 PM
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Ha!

So I wasted $25 worth of goo on the outer bond.
The pool guy told me to do that.
Live & learn.

I'll look up the section on the cord question... should have posted it first time around.
My bad.

I'll be back.
 
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Old 05-02-07, 01:39 PM
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Yeah. That goo is not cheap, is it.
 
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Old 05-02-07, 02:43 PM
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Here it is.... 680.23 (B) (4)

The end of the flexible-cord jacket and the flexible-cord conductor termination within a luminaire (fixture) shall be covered with , or encapsulated in, a suitable potting compound to prevent the entry of water into the luminaire (fixture) through the cord or its conductors. In addition, the grounding connection within a luminaire (fixture) shall be similarly treated to protect such connection from the deteriorating effect of pool water in the event of water entry into the luminaire (fixture).

On re-reading, they are referring to the wiring inside the fixture, not the wire leading up to it on the outside?
 
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Old 05-02-07, 06:32 PM
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There are alot of rules about expotential bonding grids and pools. I have done lots of Resi and Com pools and the amount of posts required to get you on the right track would be great. It dont seem right at all that you cant find #8 cu thhn green, it is one of the most common building wire types dont use any other awg or it will not fit in bonding lug at deck box. Dont put anything metal or electrical within 5' of the edge of the pool if you can help it, 20'+ is ideal. Niche fixtures come with 100' of cord. Deck boxes are required installed at least 8" above water level #8 thhn green cu routed to deck box and connected to eqipment ground from branch circuit. Never had to spackle the so cord from niche fixture, just the lug inside forming shell. I hope that helps. You are getting it inspected right? If all else fails just call it in and see what happens. The worst that can happen is re-inspect fees or an inspector that lets you get sideways and dont tell you. Call a pro if it comes to it, thats why we are here. I hope you arent a pool dude or a handyman poaching electrical work. One more thing, them fixtures are watercooled thats why they are submerged so dont turn them on untill the pool is full or *bang*.
 

Last edited by NarrowbackPride; 05-02-07 at 06:36 PM. Reason: tidbit
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Old 05-02-07, 06:54 PM
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What Narrow said about the potting.
I have never potted anything but the internal bond lug. The cord where it exits the light fixture is a factory connection. Do not mess with it.
 
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Old 05-05-07, 03:52 PM
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Yes.. I am getting it all inspected. 1st groundwork (burial) PVC only, then rough, then final.

I can find plenty of stranded #8 Cu but my county requires #8 solid from the niche to the junction box. It's on their web site, and I finally was able to speak to the inspector.... he says #8 solid.

Thanks for the tip on the lights.... I would not have thought of that.
I probably would have cooked 'em.

They come with various length cords... the pool contractor gave me two with 30 ft cords, but I need longer, so I ordered a 50 and a 100. I don't want junction boxes in the pool deck. The junction boxes are now mounted just below the disconnect & panel. I have it all mounted on unistrut, and its is all levelled & plumbed... minimum 36 inches above finished grade. It's not sloppy work... I don't like poor workmanship.

I worked in commercial wiring a long time ago... and I routinely work with 208, 480 3 phase etc... but this pool stuff is a different animal.

Thanks for all the help & tips... glad I posted here.
 
 

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