250V 2 wire to 250V 3 wire

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  #1  
Old 06-10-07, 01:40 PM
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250V 2 wire to 250V 3 wire

Hi all, have a question regarding wiring. The previous owner wired up the garage with a 250V 2 wire setup for an air compressor. He used a 40 amp double throw breaker and 10/2 wiring. I'll never need this circuit but I'd like to get an old kitchen range and use it for powder coating. That being said I know I need a neutral wire so I can run the 125 V items on the stove but will I need to replace the 10/2 with 6/3 or can I just run a singe neutral and use the 10/2 as is to power the range?

Thanks in advance.
 
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  #2  
Old 06-10-07, 02:11 PM
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You would only be able to use the existing wire for 30A machines, either 120V or 240V, but not 120/240V.

Most ranges are 120/240V and need a 40-60A supply. You're probably going to need the 6/3 w/ ground.

Also, a neutral must be run in the same raceway as the hots, so that wouldn't work anyway.
 
  #3  
Old 06-10-07, 02:14 PM
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Where is the panel in relation to where you would need the new receptacle? Often, it's easier than a homeowner thinks to get a new circuit. Any spaces left in the panel for more breakers?

The existing circuit would be good for a welding machine later.
 
  #4  
Old 06-10-07, 03:18 PM
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Thank you for your replies. The panel is in a finished basment with drop and drywalled ceilings. It's a T&B 200 amp with plently of spots that could be used. The problem is not the distance to the garage (7 feet straight shot) but looking up above the panel it makes at least
(3) 90 degree bends before it even starts heading up to the garage.

Since I was going to have to replace the 10/2 for the 6/3 I was just going to use the 10/2 as the snake and pull the 6/3 back to the panel. I have a welder and compressor that are both 125V so I don't need it as is.

I got a old stove today for free, just have to wire it up. 3 wire type.

On the same front I found something that did shock me, no pun intended, the previous homeowner or builder did the same wire(10/2) for an electric dryer. Problem is we have a gas dryer. Since I was checking for wire routings I switched the dryer circuit off and I'm gad a I did. I found it burried in the wall terminating into a bunch of electrical tape. Needless to say I wasn't happy.
 
  #5  
Old 06-10-07, 03:34 PM
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It seems extremely unlikely that using the 10/2 to pull 6/3 will actually be successful. I suspect a little drywall removal and repair is in your future. It's not rocket science, nor nearly as scary and many people think. Good luck.
 
  #6  
Old 06-10-07, 03:59 PM
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Since I also doubt the feasibility of pulling out the #10 to pull in the #6, I'd suggest leaving it there, and using it for the welding machine. Most 120V welding machines are pushing the limits of a 20A circuit, and it would be a welcome relief for it to be on its own dedicated circuit, and to do it with #10 wire would really make that thing sing.
 
  #7  
Old 06-11-07, 09:26 AM
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Well I picked up everything I needed today except for the breaker. Not to bad for 50 bucks. Lowes's doesn't carry T&B and I don't know if Siemens,GE or Square D breakers will fit in a T&B load center. I'm searching for them as we speak.
 
  #8  
Old 06-11-07, 09:35 AM
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Nuts!! T&B got out of the load center business back in 2002. Will any other companies breakers fit a T&B 200 amp load center?
 
  #9  
Old 06-11-07, 09:40 AM
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Here's a couple places that sell T&B breakers:

http://www.aplussupply.com/break/tb/tbbreak.htm
http://www.electricsupplyonline.com/prod/circuit_breakers-thomas_and_betts.php

I'm sure a local supply house could order you one also. As a last resort, I'm pretty sure that Cutler-Hammer breakers are classified for use in T&B panels.
 
  #10  
Old 06-12-07, 08:35 AM
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I checked them out and their prices are fair, but I did some more diging and found this site.

http://www.dale-electric.com/

They not only tell you what one you want they list others that are compatible. I needed a TB250. Here are ones that will also work.

Alternate Items
MP250
50 AMP 2-POLE MURRAY BREAKER

FPE250
120 OR 240 VAC 50 AMPS 2 POLES TYPE NA 2 INCH WIDE CIRCUIT BREAKER

CH250
120 OR 240 VAC 50 AMPS 2 POLES TYPE CH CIRCUIT BREAKER UL NEMA

THQL2150
GE 50A 2 POLE BREAKER 2 IN. SIZE

BR250-CUTLER
50 AMP 2 POLE 2 SPACE BREAKER
 
  #11  
Old 06-12-07, 08:57 AM
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Be careful with replacement breakers. Original manufacture breakers are _listed_for use in a particular panel. Replacement and other manufacturer breakers are _classified_ for use in a competitor's panel. While both ratings do require extensive testing, the listed breakers are tested more thoroughly than the classified breakers. The moral of the story is that you should always use original listed breakers when available, and only use classified replacement breakers if you have to.
 
  #12  
Old 06-14-07, 07:07 AM
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Well I'm all done. I went to Lowe's last night with my list and the CH and GE breaker's weren't even close. The only one that worked was the BR and it fit perfectly. I saw when I pulled the front cover that the previous homeowner used Siemens breakers when he added circuits.

I ran the 6/3 with no BIG issues. I knew I purchased to much cable but I'd rather have to much than not enough. While I was installing this circuit I fixed other problems the inital contractor and the previous homeowner did so I can feel better about what's there.


Thanks to everyone for your help.
 
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