Kitchen Remodel - Electrical Plans

Reply

  #1  
Old 07-09-07, 10:01 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 175
Kitchen Remodel - Electrical Plans

I'm going to do a complete kitchen remodel, just wanted to run a few thoughts by the group. My home is in unincorporated San Bernardino County, California, which has a document titled "Guidelines for Single-Family Construction", most of which is a regurgitation of the existing codes. So it's probably safe to say they take almost no exception to the NEC requirements.

1. Small Appliance circuits - 2 circuits, 20A each. The requirements for number, spacing, and GFCI protection are clear.

2. Refrigerator - I plan to put this on one of the small appliance circuits (upstream of the GFCI protected outlets), is this OK or is a dedicated circuit recommended?

3. Range Hood/Microwave Combo - Is this OK on one of the small appliance circuits, or is a dedicated circuit needed? What about GFCI protection?

4. Range - Will be gas, so it will just get a receptacle off one of the small appliance circuits. Since I will have easy access all the way to the service panel during the remodel, is it worthwhile to add a 50A dedicated receptacle for potential resale value?

5. Dishwasher/Garbage Disposal - I want to put them both on one dedicated 20A circuit, using a single receptacle under the sink. However, the county guidelines do say "provide separate circuits for garbage disposals, trash compactors and dishwashers. Their recommended circuit ampacities are 15, 15 and 20 amperes respectively." As far as I can tell, this is advisory, not mandatory, as I cannot specifically find this written in the county codes.

6. Other general purpose receptacles in the kitchen, not on the countertops - These cannot be on the small appliance circuits, correct? Can they be on circuits shared with receptacles in other rooms?

7. Lighting - on another circuit, potentially shared with lighting in other rooms (but not the bathroom) - is this OK?

Thanks,
Brian
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 07-09-07, 10:23 PM
HotxxxxxxxOKC's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 8,044
I can only answer some, and leave the rest to the pro's to answer:

"2. Refrigerator - I plan to put this on one of the small appliance circuits (upstream of the GFCI protected outlets), is this OK or is a dedicated circuit recommended?"

-- I would put this on a dedicated circuit. Putting this on a GFCI could cause issues. If the GFCI were to trip, and you didn't know it, all the food would be wasted

3. Range Hood/Microwave Combo - Is this OK on one of the small appliance circuits, or is a dedicated circuit needed? What about GFCI protection?

-- Dedicate this circuit as well. Microwaves these days are powerful and require more power


Good luck.
 
  #3  
Old 07-09-07, 10:25 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 18,399
1. Two circuits are the minimum, more may be advisable.

2. A separate circuit from the required small appliance circuits is preferred. You could tap from this for a third small appliance circuit.

3. Cannot be from one of the required small appliance circuits. Built-in microwave takes enough power to warrant a dedicated circuit. Not sure about the hood.

4. This would be a good place to use a receptacle tapped from the refrigerator circuit. What with the price of wire I would perhaps run empty conduit (flexible is okay) that would allow for later pulling of conductors for an electric range.

5. I would use a multi-wire circuit for the dishwasher and disposal if the AHJ desires separate circuits.

6. I don't know the answer to this.

7. Yes, that is okay.


One thing you may want to keep in mind is use of a standby generator. If you do it right you would be able to keep the refrigerator going, use the gas range, have minimal lighting, perhaps the microwave or a counter receptacle.
 
  #4  
Old 07-10-07, 05:12 AM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 13,973
6. Must be on small appliance circuit, but do not need GFCI protection.
 
  #5  
Old 07-10-07, 09:44 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Near Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 10,541
> 1. Small Appliance circuits - 2 circuits, 20A each.

Minimum of 2, but you may need more. These must serve all countertop and wall receptacles the kitchen, dining room, pantry or other such food prep/eating area.

> 2. Refrigerator - I plan to put this on one of the small appliance circuits

Can be on a small appliance circuit, but it makes good sense to put this on a dedicated or at least as the first device on the third small appliance circuit. No GFCI recommended or required.

> 3. Range Hood/Microwave Combo...What about GFCI protection?

Must be a dedicated 20A circuit with a simplex 20A receptacle located in the cabinet above the micro-hood, usually about a foot off-center on the right hand side when facing the cabinet to accommodate the vent duct. No GFCI recommended or required.

> 4. Range - Will be gas, so it will just get a receptacle off one of the
> small appliance circuits.

Yep.

> worthwhile to add a 50A dedicated receptacle for potential resale value?

I don't think so; buyers rarely look at that sort of thing and #6/3 cable is expensive. For expansion purposes you could install a 4-11/16" square steel box with 2-gang mudring and 1" PVC conduit to the main panel. This would allow a future owner to easily pull in wires for an electric range without your upfront cost on wire. If the access to the panel is unfinished, don't bother with either -- a range circuit could be added easily.

> 5. Dishwasher/Garbage Disposal

Combined or separate is fine. If the county recommends separate, make them separate; wire is cheap compared to a dispute with the inspector over what is technically required. Cannot be on small appliance circuits.

> 6. Other general purpose receptacles in the kitchen

Must be on a 20A small appliance circuit(s); may serve receptacles in the kitchen, dining room, pantry, etc; cannot serve lighting.

> Lighting - on another circuit, potentially shared with lighting in other rooms

Ok

> (but not the bathroom) - is this OK?

Not bathroom receptacles. Kitchen lighting can share with bathroom lighting or fans.
 
  #6  
Old 07-10-07, 10:01 AM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 13,973
Ben,

Where do you come up with the built in microwave needing a simplex receptacle? I agree a dedicated circuit is needed, but I believe that a duplex receptacle, and a 15 amp one at that, can be used (assuming the microwave does NOT have a 20 amp cord and plug).
 
  #7  
Old 07-10-07, 10:22 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Near Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 10,541
I believe the dedicated circuits should have a simplex receptacle, as a duplex receptacle would make the circuit general-purpose. This would violate 210.23(A)(2) as the microwave draws greater than 50% of the circuit ampacity. I concede that my interpretation is rather narrow, but what legal reason would the second receptacle ever be used for in the cabinet? Of course, once it is simplex it must be 20A to match the circuit. I really doubt an inspector would complain about a duplex 15A receptacle in this case.
 
  #8  
Old 07-10-07, 10:25 AM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 13,973
The issue is one of convenience and expense. 20 amp simplex receptacles are quite a bit more expensive and much harder to find (for the average homeowner) than 15 amp duplex ones, and I'm not even referring to the bulk ones that are about 50 cents each.

I see very little temptation to use the other half of a duplex receptacle that is in the back of the cabinet located above the microwave and hidden behind the whatever is stored in that cabinet.
 
  #9  
Old 07-10-07, 08:27 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tustin
Posts: 90
AND...since you are in California, Let's talk Title 24 Energy Conservation...Flourescent lighting, that cannot be changed to indacescent (I.E. 4-pin Connector Lamps) or Dimmer switches if you use indacescents. if there is a living space above your kitchen, and you install recessed, those can's must be AT rated (air tight) and if there is insulation, the must also be IC rated. Undercab lighting, flourescent or low volt with a dimmer. I worked all day, I can't think of anything else, if I do I'll let you know.
 
  #10  
Old 07-11-07, 07:16 PM
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 121
Maybe this will help you out.

1. Kitchen Countertops: Requires a minimum of 2-20amp circuits. Receptacle required within 2'ft of sink. Receptacles are required to be within 4'ft between each other. Any counter 12"in or longer requires a receptacle. All receptacles are to be GFCI protected. Dining room receptacles are to come off one of the Small Appliance Branch Circuits but cannot go anywhere else. All these receptacles are to be GFCI protected. Also receptacles cannot be higher than 20"in from counter.

2. Refrigerator is required by code on dedicated circuit 15 amp or greater.

3. Microwave/vent is considered fixed appliance and required to be on dedicated circuit of 15 amp or greater. You can go from microwave to stove and no further. Stove is considered as a clock outlet.

4. See 3.

5. Dishwasher and Garbage Disposer cannot be on same circuit. 2005 NEC Code Book Article 210.23 (2). Utilization Equipment fastened in place.

6. Dining room can come off of small appliance branch circuit and cannot anywhere else. All kitchen circuits other than lighting cannot leave the kitchen dining room area.

7. Kitchen lighting is required to come from a lighting circuit from another room eveb from bathroom vanity lighting.

Hopefully this will be of some help for you. All information is in the 2005 NEC National Electrical Code Book.
 
  #11  
Old 07-11-07, 07:19 PM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 13,973
jamead65,

I don't what you are reading, but several of your points are incorrect.
 
  #12  
Old 07-11-07, 07:26 PM
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 121
If you don't mind, could you point them out for me. I can give articles from the code to confirm my post.
 
  #13  
Old 07-11-07, 07:34 PM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 13,973
Gladly.

The small appliance circuits apply to the kitchen, the dining room, and the pantry. A breakfast nook would also be included.

The refrigerator may be on one of these small appliance circuits. It does not have to be on a dedicated circuit (although one is preferable).

A circuit dedicated for the microwave/hood cannot also serve the gas stove/ Typically these devices call for a dedicated circuit, which means dedicated. If they do not call for a dedicated circuit in their installation instructions then you could probably get away with also serving the gas range from this circuit.

You certainly may serve both the disposal and the dishwasher on the same circuit, provided they don't exceed the circuit ratings, and most do not.

Kitchen lighting must come from some other circuit, but it does not have to be a lighting circuit (whatever that is). It could be the same circuit as the living room receptacles, for example.
 
  #14  
Old 07-11-07, 08:43 PM
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 121
OK here it goes:

You are in fact correct. I didn't list every room that small appliance circuit is permitted. Sorry about that.


Article 210.52 (1) Exception 2 : The receptacle outlet for refrigeration equipment shall be permitted to be supplied from an individual branch circuit rated 15 amperes or greater.

Also look at Article 210.52 (C) (5): Receptacles outlets shall be located above, but not more than 500mm (20 in) above, the countertop. Receptacle outlets rendered not readily accessible by appliances fastened in place, appliance garages, sinks, or rangetops as covered in 210.52 (C) (1), Exception, or appliances occupying dedicated space shall not be considered as these required outlets.

Gas stoves can come from small appliance branch circuit according to Article 210.52 (B) (2) Exception no.2 but again 210.52 (C) (5) says it shouldn't be considered. 210.23 (A) (2) says you can from a fastened utilization equipment as long as it is not 50% of the branch circuit rating.

Dishwashers are usually rated for 1200 to 1500 watts, garbage disposals are at anywhere from 900 to 1000 watts, together they come to about 17, 18amps combined. I was incorrect in separating those 2 circuits and it's more of preferance than fact. sorry about that.

Yes you're right about the circuits coming from any circuit in the house whether receptacle or lighting. sorry about that.

Sorry about taking so long as I'm not good at typing.
 
  #15  
Old 07-12-07, 05:13 AM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 13,973
My point on the refrigerator circuit is that it is not REQUIRED(as you stated) to be on a dedicated circuit. It MAY be, and that circuit MAY be a 15 amp one, but it is not required.

In all situations, what the manufacturer of an appliance calls for is required. Most microwave hoods call for a dedicated circuit. That means that the circuit MUST be dedicated. However, if the instructions don't call for a dedicated circuit then the NEC rules apply.
 
  #16  
Old 07-12-07, 07:51 AM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: United States
Posts: 18,497
When reading the code, it is very important to clearly differentiate between the words "permitted" and "required". Don't substitute one for the other.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes