married or un-married

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  #1  
Old 08-02-07, 10:50 AM
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Question married or un-married

Have two questions. (1) Is this correct? Service drop feeds new 200A Meter/main panel, with 200A c/b. !00A breaker in this new panel feeds old 100A main c/b (in old panel) located directly
adjacent to new panel joined by a nipple) Meter from old panel has been removed and capped. From having read many posts here it is my understanding that the old panel with it's meter removed is now a sub-panel. The ground and neutrals in old panel are as they were when the panel was a main panel (married). My question is (finally) should they be un-married? Question (2) What is wrong when a Gfi (outer wall of residence) a. shows open neutral ( with gfi tester) b. does not trip when test button is pushed. The Gfi is wired to old two wire cable (line only) There is 120 V between hot and grounded conductor, and my drill motor works just fine plugged in here. Thank you for your precious time in responding to my questions.
 
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  #2  
Old 08-02-07, 11:18 AM
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1. Yes, the neutrals and grounds should be separated.

2. To me it sounds like the tester is broken.
 
  #3  
Old 08-02-07, 06:46 PM
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2. Sounds like GFCI is bad. It should trip when you push the test button.
 
  #4  
Old 08-02-07, 07:27 PM
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It is unclear to me if he is pressing the GFCI test button or the test button on his tester.
 
  #5  
Old 08-02-07, 08:45 PM
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Cool

Thank you Ray and Joed for your response. Here is the exact sequence of my service call. 1. My first automatic response was to push the reset button on the Gfi receptacle. ( next time I'll insert my Gfi "tester first) 2. I inseted my Gfi "tester". Only the right hand side lite lit, which on my "tester" indicates an OPEN NEUTRAL. I next removed the 2 wires from the gfi (line only), to check incoming voltage . My meter read 120 from hot to grounded conductor (no ground wire available). I then re-installed the Gfi (newly installed by other electrician a week ago) and re-inserted both my Gfi "testers" Same result meaning it shows an open neutral and will not trip Gfi by pushing the button on the Gfi "testers" My drill motor works fine plugged in here??? The customer will be calling back the original electrician who installed the Gfi, so I won't be back to do any further diagnosis. Thanks again for the responses. Have a great week-end
 
  #6  
Old 08-03-07, 04:19 AM
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If you have power at the GFCI receptacle, i.e. your "dill motor" works then the the GFCI has power and does not have an open neutral. Open ground maybe (in this case yes, since you said it did), but NOT open neutral.

An external GFCI tester will not work without a ground.

So from what you have stated, there is nothing wrong with the GFCI receptacle, and the GFCI tester has a bad indicator.
 
  #7  
Old 08-04-07, 12:51 AM
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Your 100 amp panel should have the neutrals and grounds separated. Your gfci is completely wrong to start with. Gfci must have 3 wires in order to operate correctly. Gfci's trip when there is an imbalance between the potential of the neutal and ground. I think racraft missed that you described a hot and a grounded conductor instead of saying neutral. Don't worry about your tester, it did bring you here. You will have to find something to attach a ground wire to make it work. Maybe a water pipe close by and then connect your gfci with the three wires. Your electrician is not an electrician if he has left this gfci as is without correcting it and I would strongly suggest not to use him again in the future. I wouldn't use the customer's electrician either. Licensed electricians, if you decide to hire one, know the consequences of an gfci incorrectly installed and would not leave that without correcting it. I'll give you an example of one conseqence of a bad gfci outside. An extension cord with a nick in it exposing the hot wire on laying in water or mud puddles. The gfci won't trip and the breaker is not going to trip and water gradually soak up to your ankles. This could be fatal and are common in the household. Gfci are simple to install, but when hiring electricians find a real one.
 
  #8  
Old 08-04-07, 06:31 AM
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The grounded conductor is the neutral. I paid very careful attention to the term used.

GFCI do NOT need a ground to work properly. They work properly without one. In fact, installing a GFCI on a two wire circuit is one of the legal ways to provide a three prong receptacle. It still won't have a ground, but it will provide ground fault protection fine without one.
 
  #9  
Old 08-04-07, 10:02 AM
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Talking

Jamead65___Thank-you for responding my friend, but you must do some more reading (the archives of this site is great) Connect to a water pipe close by!!! Very bad idea unless that water pipe is in close proximity to the main panel, somthing like 5 feet I beieve is what I read in the archives. Perhaps there are some other requirements?? But definitely not to the "nearest water pipe". but like Ray said a Gfi does not need a ground wire in order to work which is precicely why they are a wonderfull replacement for non-grounded 2 slot receptacles in many older homes. They will protect you from a ground fault, but will not, as I'm understanding protect sensitive electronic equipment like your computer from surges and the like
 
  #10  
Old 08-04-07, 12:48 PM
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Boy, I missed the water pipe comment. I must be slipping. In the US a water pipe cannot be used for a ground connection to a branch circuit unless the connection is made to within five feet of where the circuit panel grounding connection is made.

In Canada it is allowed to make connections elsewhere, but not in the US.
 
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