Service upgrade and move.


  #1  
Old 08-02-07, 08:39 PM
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Question Service upgrade and move.

I have a 100amp service panel that is currently full. (24 slots no mini's)
My meter is on the end of the house. I have since added an attached garage to that end of the house. I want to relocate the meter to the end of the new garage and bury the line to a pole 50 ft from the house. I also want to upgrade to a 200amp service.
My question is what would be the best method in doing this.
Should I:
#1 relocate the updated 200amp meter service to the garage and put a 200amp breaker box in the garage and then feed the house box with a 100amp line from the garage.
or
#2 relocate the updated 200amp meter service to the garage with a service disconnect to the house breaker box and upgrade that to a 200amp panel. This way I will have only one panel in the house.

I have had some elctricans look at it and they have said #1.
Any opinions would be a great help. I am trying to decide.
So far I have been quoted around $4,000 digging and burying included.
 
  #2  
Old 08-02-07, 09:42 PM
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where you move your meter is usually totally dependant on your POCO, call them and see what they say, they are the ones that have the power to tell you where you can put it.
 
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Old 08-03-07, 09:37 AM
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Thanks for the reply.
Locating the meter on the garage is fine with the POCO.
I'm just not sure if I should go with a service disconnect and have one breaker panel in the house or install the 200amp panel in the garage and feed the panel in the house?
 
  #4  
Old 08-03-07, 06:43 PM
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Unless you have some reason to move the house panel, you might as well make it a subpanel. It's usually much more convenient to run one cable to the subpanel as opposed to 24 hots and neutrals.
 
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Old 08-04-07, 12:40 AM
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My advice and opinion for this is to go with a 200 amp panel and feed your 100 amp as a sub panel. 120/240 single phase 200 amp disconnect wouldn't do you any good to feed a 100 amp panel. That's a waste of money. That disconnect is expensive and restrictive. Go with a 120/240v single phase 200 amp breaker panel and place a 100 double pole breaker to protect your house panel. You are allowed to have up to 6 disconnects for that panel which will give you the opportunity to have the ability to add additional circuits from there. Be sure to have an inspection for your protection.
 
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Old 08-04-07, 04:27 PM
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Wink

jamead65____Pardon my ignorance, but could you please explain what you meant in your statement "you are allowed to have up to 6 disconnects for that panel________in the context that you are describing??? I Sidecutter need to learn how to "paste" (lol) Anyhow to the original questioner, If you decide on number 1 make sure the electrician seperates the neutrals from the grounds in the existing main panel if the existing main panel is to become a sub-panel.
 
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Old 08-04-07, 04:58 PM
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sidecutter,

2005 NEC Article 230.71 (A) General. The service disconnecting means for each service permitted by 230.2, or for each set of service entrance conductors permitted by 230.40, Exceptions Nos, 1,3,4 or 5 shall consist of not more than six switches or sets of circuit breakers, or a combination of more than six switches and sets of circuit breakers, mounted in single enclosure,in a group of separate enclosures, or in or ona a switchboard.
 
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Old 08-04-07, 05:51 PM
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Smile

I'm afraid I'm not yet that well versed in the lingo of the NEC. My understanding of that rule is somewhat limited. I believe I read many times that In a de-tached building sub-panel if it takes more than six throws of the hand, then that sub-panel will require a main c/b. If you have a clear understanding of this rule in "plain english" I would like to hear it. thanx
 
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Old 08-04-07, 06:25 PM
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Grammar correction: If it takes more than six throws of the hand to kill all the circuits in "said panel"
 
  #10  
Old 08-04-07, 09:43 PM
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200 amp service entrance and main breaker + meter @ the garage with 100 amp breaker to feed the house. #2/3 with ground from the 100 amp breaker to a main lugs subpanel at the house feeding existing circuits.
 
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Old 08-04-07, 09:47 PM
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sidecutter,

Where did you get that info? I don't know how to put it any plainer than no more than 6 disconnecting means within an enclosure. I don't want to stray from original poster that my suggestion was for a 200 amp panel instead of a single phase 200 amp disconnect ($350 is what one cost) for my versitiity for any expansion. Only a suggestion that might help you is to purchase a code book and start reading. Some electrical forums, electricians recite out the code book and you can follow along. 2008 Code is supposed to come out in September I think so it would be wise to wait since the 2005 won't be of much use.
 
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Old 08-05-07, 05:00 AM
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Thank you for the responses!!!
I guess the 200amp panel feeding the house panel is the way to go.
As far as the grounds go:
" If you decide on number 1 make sure the electrician seperates the neutrals from the grounds in the existing main panel if the existing main panel is to become a sub-panel."

Would this be standard practice or a preference from the electrician?
Would the inspecter be checking that separating the grounds would be done?

Thanks again.
 
  #13  
Old 08-05-07, 09:28 AM
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The code dictates that the ground and neutral are bonded at the main panel, i.e. where the meter is (200 amp main breaker @ the garage once your upgrade is done). This is the ONLY place where they can be bonded. At your 100 amp house panel(which sounds like it will be a subpanel after the upgrade), the ground and neutral buss bars must be separate and the neutral buss must not be bonded to the metal panel. There is probably a bonding jumper at your house panel now if it is currently serving as your main. This would need to be removed if it becomes a subpanel once your upgrade is done. Anyone you might hire for the job should know this.
 
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Old 08-05-07, 10:05 AM
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QUOTE:
"Where did you get that info? I don't know how to put it any plainer than no more than 6 disconnecting means within an enclosure. I don't want to stray from original poster that my suggestion was for a 200 amp panel instead of a single phase 200 amp disconnect ($350 is what one cost) for my versitiity for any expansion. Only a suggestion that might help you is to purchase a code book and start reading. Some electrical forums, electricians recite out the code book and you can follow along. 2008 Code is supposed to come out in September I think so it would be wise to wait since the 2005 won't be of much use."
*END QUOTE*

At the risk of getting off topic I feel I must clarify.

There is NO "6 disconnecting means within an enclosure" rule with regard to branch circuits. Why do you think they make 42 space 200a main lug panels??? That is NOT the intent of NEC 225.33, although I see how it can be misinterpreted that way.
The first line of that section should be a clue:
"The disconnecting means for each supply...."
For each supply. Not branch circuits.

Also, do not get hung up on the 2008 NEC. It is not even available yet, and IMO few places with adopt it in it's entirety on 1/1/08.
 
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Old 08-05-07, 10:30 AM
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Ok great.
So the elctrician I hire should be expected to do this.
I guess thats what I'll do then.
Thanks for the help in deciding.
You totaly lost me with the code rules, which is nice (LOL),because I had toyed with the idea of doing it myself.
Now I don't feel so bad spending the money on the electrician.
Thanks.
 
  #16  
Old 08-05-07, 10:38 AM
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The electrician you hire should also get a permit. This is required and will insure that the work is seen by an inspector. Here at least and most places, I'm sure, the power company will disconnect the service to the house prior to any work being done and will re-connect the service only after the work has been signed off by a city inspector.
 
 

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