120 ft of conduit best method pulling wire through

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  #1  
Old 10-04-07, 11:58 AM
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120 ft of conduit best method pulling wire through

running #4 wire 130 ft in ground to a subpanel. I will probally use inch and a half coundiut. What is the best method:

Glue all the pipe together and pull through the wire with a rope with 2 men, one pulling one feeding?

OR more or less gluing the pipe in 10 ft intervals with the wires already inside the pipe at the start?


Any ideas help appreciated!
 
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Old 10-04-07, 12:02 PM
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You cannot glue the pipe as you go. You must assemble it before hand. The glue will destroy the wires.

Use plenty of wire lubricant.
 
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Old 10-04-07, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Tim T. View Post
Glue all the pipe together and pull through the wire with a rope with 2 men, one pulling one feeding?
This option only. Have the helper who is feeding apply plenty of wire lube (Ideal Clearglide, etc) as the conductors are pulled in.

Wire insulation is made from PVC and Nylon and will be damaged by the glue and cleaner; the glue must be set up before wires are pulled.
 
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Old 10-04-07, 12:58 PM
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The NEC specifically prohibits implacing conductors in an "un-finished" raceway ( EMT, Conduit, etc.).

The raceway must be completely assembled before any conductors are implaced.

If the raceway is assembled with 90 degree "sweeps" which will be underground, consider using rigid ( steel ) conduit for the 90 degree "bends" because the friction of the pull-rope against the interior of the bend could cut thru the plastic wall.

You will need to include an Equiptment Grounding Conductor in the raceway.
 
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Old 10-04-07, 04:00 PM
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Also, keep in mind that PVC pipe is to be buried at a depth of 18". I would install a pull string in the pipe as you go. Then, I'd use the pull string to pull in a #12 or #10 pull wire. When pulling the pull wire in, I'd attach a small piece of rag on the head to help clear any dirt out of the pipe. The wire will be stronger than the string and shouldn't burn through the PVC. Having someone feed the wires is a good idea. Make sure the feeder not only uses plenty of lube, but also keeps the wire straight going into the pipe. If the wires start crossing over each other, it can make pulling a bear. Also, you should have the feeder gently push the wires into the pipe, which will help a lot on the other end. If the wires get jammed up along the way, it's most likely that the head's hung up in a joint or a bend. Try pulling back on them a little bit and giving it a quick jerk forward. This may help you get through the hurdle, but don't pull too hard and pull the head apart. If it doesn't want to go no matter what, try making a smaller head.
To make a strong head, strip the #4's and the pull wire back at least a foot. Score the outer strands of the #4 wire and pull them off to decrease the diameter. Squish the broken-ended strands back in tight so that they don't catch on anything. When making up the head, you want to twist all the wires together with the pull wire, staggering the #4's so it's not too bulky. You can also wrap the head with a paper bag and the duct tape it to make it smooth. Just don't overwrap it and make it too bulky.

Good luck!
 
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Old 10-04-07, 04:30 PM
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Just a few "quick tips". Make sure ALL of the bell ends are runing the same directions. Before glueing bevel the INSIDE of the conduit that you glue into the bell end. Keep the bends to a minimium. Once it is glued and buired, tie a string to a loose ball of plastic and blow it through with compressed air. This will help cleanout the run and give you a starter pull line. Replace it with small line, tie a rag in the middle of the total length of the run and pull it back and forth to wipe out any dirt or rocks, tape your wire (staggered) to the rope and add wire lube as it enters the conduit. Good Luck
 
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Old 10-04-07, 04:43 PM
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Use a "mouse" and mason's line and vacuum the mouse through the conduit. I just use a good shop vac and it seems to work well, as no air escapes. Then you can pull a larger stronger rope to pull the rest. Like dosser said, stagger your ends to prevent snagging.
 
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Old 10-04-07, 06:54 PM
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My mouse is generally a plastic baggie. The bags from Wal-Mart work pretty good. They are thin and light and suck well.

I take the bag and lay it flat. Grab the center of the bag and pull up. Tie your string to the aprt you pulled up. When inserting it into the pipe, have the string side to you and poke the center in first so the sides will enter last.

Vacuum rather than blow is my preferred method of transport.

I prefer Ideal Yellow 77 as lube though. Clearglide, Sylglide, aqualube etc are all to liquidy. Yellow has some body to it and hangs on through the whole run.
 
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Old 10-05-07, 09:27 AM
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Thanks for the replies!

Very helpful , The only option is gluing first that much is defenite from the posts. Sounds like I will need to also get the air compressor or shop vac out and some lube and different size ropes or string and finally a bag from wal-mart.

Thanks for the tips!
 
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Old 10-05-07, 12:00 PM
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Blowing the pull string in is a very common practice. I prefer to pull a string in as I'm gluing it together though. I've had stubborn pipes that couldn't be blown out before. It's easy to install a string while gluing it together, so why not? Just tie a small weight on the end and let it slide through each pipe before gluing it together. I'm not saying everyone else is wrong, it's just the method I prefer. I do agree about using the bag as a mouse though. There have been times where I've opted to use a bag instead of a manufactured mouse many times because it often works better.

I will say though, that just taping the wires on is not a good idea. They can and often do come out of the head that way. Use the copper strands to hold the head together and the tape to keep the head tight and smooth. Also, if you use a rope, go with a smooth rope that won't burn through the pipe.
 
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Old 10-05-07, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by brewcityc View Post
Also, if you use a rope, go with a smooth rope that won't burn through the pipe.
very good advice there.

I will say though, that just taping the wires on is not a good idea. They can and often do come out of the head that way. Use the copper strands to hold the head together and the tape to keep the head tight and smooth
also very important.

I make a head a bit different than everybody here and have had very good success with it. Take 3 or 4 strands from oppsisite sides of the wire, pull outward, cut off everything else. Then fold those in half so they fold towards each other. Those both will be placed through a loop on your rope or fish tape. Do this with each of the conductors. Then using a pair of channel lock pliers, squeeze them very tight making the fold as small as it will fold. For large wire or a long pull (that I believe will be hard) then take a couple strands of the wire you cut off and wrap it around the folded wires and twist it tight (it will break quite easily so don;t overdo it. It takes some practice to not break the wire you are twisting). fold the tails down. Then wrap this very tightly with black electrical tape. I leave the fold itself (the one through the loop of the rope) untaped but from just below the fold all the way back until you run out of bare wire should be taped. While taping, be sure to hold the wires very closely together until you get them taped.


having a person on the feed end feeding, soaping (wire lube), and pushing makes a huge difference as to how hard you will have to pull. Contrary to many folks idea that all the feed end has to do is soap and allow the wire to get pulled, the person on the feed end actually has to push the wire in. Makes a huge difference.
 
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