Wiring question

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  #1  
Old 10-07-07, 08:47 AM
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Wiring question

I'm positive i already know the answer to this question, but i have to ask anyways. Is there any way to easily (without ripping holes in my walls) ground older circuits to my upgraded panel? I have some newer wiring with gronded circuits, but most of the wiring is older (not nob and tube). Reason i ask, is i'm trying to wire in one loan receptical into a spare room upstairs, and there is no easy way for me to get to any of the newer wiring with a ground. Just an FYI, the grounded circuit is only running one outlet and one light. The ungrounded cicuit that i can access easily is only running two lights and one outlet. So nothing will be overloaded. Any help is appreciated. Thanx in advance.
 
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Old 10-07-07, 09:29 AM
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You can't extend or modify knob and tube. You must run new, grounded, cable. If you have attic access above this is not to hard usually. If your panel is mounted on the outside of the house (as is common where I live) you can just run conduit from the panel to a few inches into the attic. If your panel is inside then you may need to very carefully make an access hole above it. On a two story house probably two.

Safety Note: Cutting near a panel can be very dangerous because of hot wires. Always cut off main power but that does not protect you from the meter feed which will be hot. I would suggest punching a small hole with a hammer first and taking a look before cutting.
 
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Old 10-07-07, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
You can't extend or modify knob and tube.
He said he did not have knob and tube....
 
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Old 10-07-07, 09:43 AM
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The panel is in the basement and the house is a modified story and a half with no attic access.
 
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Old 10-07-07, 09:55 AM
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The National Electrical Code [250.130(C)] doesn't allow the use of the equipment grounding conductor for one circuit to ground another circuit.....IE...jumper from a grounded receptacle to ground a receptacle on a non-grounded circuit.

NEC 250.130(C) does allow me to run a grounding conductor (green colored or bare) from the breaker panel (ground bar) or the grounding electrode conductor (wire to the ground rod, etc.) and use this wire to ground a receptacle.

If I use a #6 or larger conductor, I can take any route you choose from the breaker panel to the receptacle without any physical protection for the grounding conductor.
250.120(C)

This means that if I have to, I can go outside and around the house with it, and then back thru the wall into the back of the receptacle box.
Or under the house or thru the attic.

I have before totally encircled a house with a bare #6 copper grounding conductor (block house on concrete house) and then tapped off this wire to ground any number of receptacles.
I used copper split-bolts to make the tap.
The size of the tap (from the #6 wire to the receptacle) was determined by the size of the breaker feeding the circuit...#14 copper for 15 amps, #12 copper for 20 amps, #10 copper for up to 60 amps.
The smaller tap wire wasn't exposed to damage or else it would need to be in conduit or otherwise protected.

This is my opinion of what I would do to ground a non-grounded receptacle.
Any changes or work that you do to your own house electrical system is at your own risk.
I assume no responsibility or liability for the use or mis-use of this information.
Use it at your own risk.
That's my sermon (and disclaimer) for today.
Glad I got that out of the way.

Steve
 
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Old 10-07-07, 10:05 AM
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NEC 250.130(C) does allow me to run a grounding conductor (green colored or bare) from the breaker panel (ground bar) or the grounding electrode conductor (wire to the ground rod, etc.) and use this wire to ground a receptacle.###

True. For existing 2 wire rec. only (MA, does not allow this)

The NEC does not allow you to extend a 2 wire ungrounded ckt. New ckt needed, or extend off of an existing grounded ckt.
 
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Old 10-07-07, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by lectriclee View Post
NEC 250.130(C) does allow me to run a grounding conductor (green colored or bare) from the breaker panel (ground bar) or the grounding electrode conductor (wire to the ground rod, etc.) and use this wire to ground a receptacle.###

True. For existing 2 wire rec. only (MA, does not allow this)



The NEC does not allow you to extend a 2 wire ungrounded ckt. New ckt needed, or extend off of an existing grounded ckt.
Very true

The way that I read the OP, he was talking about grounding a existing receptacle on a 2 wire circuit.
I must of missed or misunderstood the part about extending any circuits.

Barring any local amendments, grounding existing circuits the way that I described is allowed by the 2005 NEC.

Just a opinion
steve
 
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Old 10-07-07, 11:44 AM
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2 questions?

"Is there any way to easily (without ripping holes in my walls) ground older circuits to my upgraded panel? "

Yes. NEC 250.130(C)


"Reason i ask, is i'm trying to wire in one loan receptical into a spare room upstairs, and there is no easy way for me to get to any of the newer wiring with a ground. Just an FYI, the grounded circuit is only running one outlet and one light. The ungrounded cicuit that i can access easily is only running two lights and one outlet. So nothing will be overloaded. Any help is appreciated. Thanx in advance."

I read this as. to add the new rec to the 2 wire ckt.


( How can I quote just portions of a post, so as to keep things clear? Now I just copy/paste)
 
  #9  
Old 10-08-07, 05:40 AM
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[QUOTE=lectriclee;1239033

( How can I quote just portions of a post, so as to keep things clear? Now I just copy/paste)[/QUOTE]

When you start your reply, hit the quote at the bottom of the post....it's right beside the "edit" button.

This will bring up the post.

Simply highlight the portions of the post that you want to remove and hit delete.

Be sure that you don't delete the "quote" brackets or anything inside them, otherwise it won't work right.

steve

.
 
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Old 10-08-07, 06:05 AM
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Thanx, I thought it was more complex, so I never tried that.
 
  #11  
Old 10-08-07, 07:37 AM
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Thanx for the replies. All appreciated.
 
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