Please Help!!! (Wiring 200amp Siemens Panel)

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  #1  
Old 10-10-07, 07:16 AM
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Please Help!!! (Wiring 200amp Siemens Panel)

I just installed a Bard Geothermal Unit in my new home and I am trying to get help on finding how to wire, what type of wire, and what amp breakers I need in my 200amp Siemens Panel. This is what I have, two places to connect wire, the Electric back-up heater with Blower and the Geothermal pump. On the electrical diagram for the Electric back-up heat, it is showing the Field Wiring being 240/208-60-1. What does this mean? Whatever wire it is will connect to 3 terminals inside the electric heat panel in the unit. Attached to the terminals is two breakers a 25amp and a 50amp. It would be so helpful if someone could help shed some light on what wire and what size breaker I need to buy.

The other connection for the geo pump is calling for 230/208-60-1

Please Help

Thanks,
Matt
 
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  #2  
Old 10-10-07, 07:26 AM
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The first question is, do you have enough power for this unit? You may need a service upgrade.

240/208-60-1 means 240/208 volts, 60 amps, single phase.

230/208-60-1 means 230/208 volts, 60 amps, single phase.

These are essentially the same.

You need 60 amp 240 volt breakers in your panel, and then 6 gage copper wire.
 
  #3  
Old 10-10-07, 07:36 AM
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Please Help!!!

The Panel was set by Detroit Edison just for this unit. So I am sure there is enough power. The question is my Electrician told me to purchase 4gauge alluminum wire for the Electrical Heater back-up with a 60amp double pull breaker. Is he correct? And also what is the difference between double pull and single? Do I need a single?
 
  #4  
Old 10-10-07, 07:45 AM
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Your electrician probably told you to use a double pole breaker. Single pole breakers are for 120 volts, double pole breakers are for 240 volts.

Why isn't your electrician wiring this unit? If your electrician told you what to use, why are you asking here? Do you not trust him or her?

Aluminum wire is cheaper than copper wire. Aluminum wire must be larger than copper wire to carry the same amount of current. Aluminum wire requires special consideration when making connections to avoid oxidization.

Unless you have an extremely long run or are talking about a sub-panel installation, I do not recommend aluminum wiring for residential settings.
 
  #5  
Old 10-10-07, 07:57 AM
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Please Help!!!

My electricial has taken his money and ran! The last I spoke with him was two weeks ago to find out what wire I needed. So I have taken it upon myself to find out the correct way to wire this unit. If you have a chance I will attach the link for the unit so you can see what I am talking about. If not, thank you for all the help!

http://www.bardhvac.com/digcat/volum...100-317(H).pdf

Thanks,
Matt
 
  #6  
Old 10-10-07, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by racraft View Post
240/208-60-1 means 240/208 volts, 60 amps, single phase.

230/208-60-1 means 230/208 volts, 60 amps, single phase.

You need 60 amp 240 volt breakers in your panel, and then 6 gage copper wire.
I hate to dis-agree with anybody, but the 60 refers to the frequency ( 60 HZ ) of AC circuitry.

Fastmat:
There should be some nameplate data on the side of the unit. One breaker is for the Electric heat portion ( usually the biggest load )on the unit, and the other one will be for the rest of the unit.

Which unit # do you have?
 

Last edited by winger; 10-10-07 at 10:09 AM. Reason: read attachment
  #7  
Old 10-10-07, 10:36 AM
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Winger

I have the Bard Unit (GSVS481-A Series Geo pump) And the (EH3GSVA-A18C Electric Back-up Heater.

On the Electric Heat/Blower Wiring Panel I have two Breakers, a 25amp and a 50amp(together). The 50amp is for the electric heater and the 25 amp is for the blower. The thing is, there is two terminals plus a ground terminal to land the wire for both of these breakers. It says in the manual to use a HACR type circuit breaker, 240/208-60-1. However, I am not sure what type of wire to use and what size breaker I need in my home panel/geo panel.

The Second place to hook up wire is to the Control Panel for my Geo Pump. This is calling for HACR Breaker, 230/208-60-1 (there is no breaker inside the unit so I will need a switch on the outside of unit). I also need the wire and breaker for this run. I will attach the link to the exact unit to see exactly what I am talking about.

Remember, both units are sold seperately so there are two different web-sites.

Thank you
Matt

GeoPump
http://www.bardhvac.com/digcat/volum...100-317(H).pdf

Electric Unit
http://www.bardhvac.com/digcat/volum...100-318(A).pdf
 
  #8  
Old 10-10-07, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by racraft View Post
The first question is, do you have enough power for this unit? You may need a service upgrade.

240/208-60-1 means 240/208 volts, 60 amps, single phase.

230/208-60-1 means 230/208 volts, 60 amps, single phase.

These are essentially the same.

You need 60 amp 240 volt breakers in your panel, and then 6 gage copper wire.
Racraft .,,, senice you know me pretty well so far anyway i will never debate with ya but let me give you a correct info on this.

230/208 mean voltage , 60 mean HZ 1 mean single phase

this is a short hand of what most electrical manufacters and electricians write this way.


Fastmat,

This question may throw ya on weird way but is both breaker is installed from factory if so,..

you need much bigger wire than that but the 50 amp for back up electric heating unit and 25 amp for blower /commpressor package.

therefore you need min of 75 amp breaker [ i think one breaker manufacter do make this size but not a standard size anyway but can get 80 amp breaker for this]

to order to run this you need #4 copper either Romax otherwise run in conduct [pipe] and run with #4 THHN/THWN

but to find 80 amp breaker you have to tell me what breaker box then i can give you the breaker size number and this breaker size something normally most big box store dont stock this but electrical supply might have this on stock depending on what brand it is.

Merci, Marc
 
  #9  
Old 10-10-07, 11:17 AM
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Please Help

The wiring panels for both the electric heat/Blower and Geo Pump were factory installed.

Is it possible for the 25amp and 50amp breakers to be the primary source of power? Do you think the geo pump runs off of these?

One more thing, I have already purchased #4 aluminum SE cable and a 70amp breaker. What should I do?
 
  #10  
Old 10-10-07, 11:39 AM
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Don;t know what happened to my response...

Yes, the 60 refers to the frequency in this case. However, on some nameplates it can also refer to the amperage requirement.
 
  #11  
Old 10-10-07, 11:42 AM
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OH ,OH

i just ran the numbers you gave me for this unit and i dont think you will like to hear this

i did break down the model numbers to get bottom of this

GSVS481-A that pretty much a 4 tonner unit and typically with the blower and commpressor package that need a 30 amp circuit set up [ i read that in the PDF format and took me few min to sort out this mess.]

unfortally this will get you hard is the back up heat

the Model number i broke down the EH3GSVA-A18C and according to the PDF file which i broke down the last 4 digits tell me that you got a 18 KW stand by heater which it will throw every thing right off the track

the 18 KW is pretty big heating element device there that will take 75 amp total on that one and i think i can see where the 25 and 50 amp breakers is comming from and this might be a two stage heating element set up.

unforteally what you have the wire now i dont know how that electrician miss that info there.


how many feet of #4 se cable did you bought ??


the 70 amp breaker may not cut for this back up heating section unless deactave one bank of heating element [ the HVAC tech can do this in safe manner ]

Merci , Marc


sorry to shake this up a bit after i did dig in more deeper and found few things
 
  #12  
Old 10-10-07, 11:45 AM
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I get the same info as french 277v, something dosent add up.
Breaker reqd for pump 40a, breaker reqd for electric heat 100A.
 
  #13  
Old 10-10-07, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by racraft View Post
Don;t know what happened to my response...

Yes, the 60 refers to the frequency in this case. However, on some nameplates it can also refer to the amperage requirement.
That true it do happend sometime if other info dont show the amp then i go that route also

thanks
 
  #14  
Old 10-10-07, 12:02 PM
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Fastmat

Quick double check. Are you sure you have a 18C or is it a 14C? The #'s do not jive. You list a EH3GSVA-A18C, but the only one listed on that pdf is a EH5GSVA-A18C
 
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