Wiring for hot tub and pool

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  #1  
Old 10-15-07, 03:36 PM
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Wiring for hot tub and pool

I'm trying to finalize my plan for this wiring project. I am trying to wire up an outdoor hot tub (240v/50A) and an above ground (not permanent) pool.

Here is what I plan to do, am I way off on anything?

1. Connect a 100A breaker in main panel to a 100A sub panel with 6/3 wire. This is just because there is only one space in the main panel and I need more room.
2. Connect a 60Amp breaker from the sub panel to a panel outside the house near the pool and hot tub. I believe I would use #6 THWN wires for this.
3. Install two GFI breakers in that outdoor box, one 50A for the hot tub and one 20A for the pool.
4. Wiring from there to the tub (20') would be #6 THWN and to the pool (70') would be #12 (both with insulated ground). This will all be run through pvc.
5. Call the inspector.

Do my wire sizes sound right?

For the wiring going out of the house to the outdoor panel do I have to run the pvc conduit all the way from the indoor sub panel and out the wall to run the THWN wire? Can I somehow switch to a flexible conduit when it comes through to the inside of the wall?

Thanks for the help,
Brent
 
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  #2  
Old 10-15-07, 04:01 PM
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1. No. #6 wire is not rated for 100 amps.

There are MANY other things you have omitted. Are you aware of them?

You need a "convenience" receptacle near the pool and near the tub. A convenience receptacle is simply a 120 volt receptacle, but there are very specific rules about how far from the edge of the pool/tub the receptacle must be located.

There are rules also for where the pool pump must be located. Are you aware of what these are?

Are you aware of the bonding requirements?
 
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Old 10-15-07, 04:02 PM
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Sounds good except for the fact that you cannot connect #6 wire to a 100-amp breaker. The wire is way too small.
 
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Old 10-15-07, 04:09 PM
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Yes, I am aware of the bonding requirements.

I forgot about the convenience outlet. Is it more than 10' less than 20'? There may be an existing outlet within 20'.

I've read that the outlet for the pool pump must be 5' from the water. The pump itself currently has hoses on it that will only allow it to be about 2' away.

~Brent
 
  #5  
Old 10-15-07, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by racraft View Post
1. No. #6 wire is not rated for 100 amps.
Originally Posted by John Nelson View Post
you cannot connect #6 wire to a 100-amp breaker. The wire is way too small.
Oops.. I was thinking about the current (as in right now) load on the sub panel not the fact that I said I'd connect it to a 100A breaker to be able to add circuits in the future.

What would be the correct size? #3? It will be about 3 feet or so.

Thanks again,
Brent
 
  #6  
Old 10-15-07, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rade0041 View Post
Connect a 100A breaker in main panel to a 100A sub panel with 6/3 wire.
The #6 is way too small for a 100A panel. You need conduit and #3 THHN for the hots and neutral and #8 insulated, green for the ground in this subpanel feeder; the ground cannot be bare copper in this case because the requirements imposed on the spa feeder also apply to the new subpanel feeding the spa (680.25 A-B).

Can I somehow switch to a flexible conduit when it comes through to the inside of the wall?
You need conduit all the way, but you can switch to a flexible conduit indoors like ENT (smurf tube) or FMC (flexible metal); you cannot use liquidtight flex except for the last 6' of conduit at the spa or pool motor. Keep in mind that even with flexible conduit, you still are allowed only 360 of total bends between accessible pull points and the conduit needs to be fastened to framing members at appropriate intervals.
 
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Old 10-15-07, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ibpooks View Post
the ground cannot be bare copper in this case because the requirements imposed on the spa feeder also apply to the new subpanel feeding the spa (680.25 A-B).
Thanks, I had planned to use insulated green for ground all the way back to the main panel but I was wondering if it was a requirement.
 
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Old 10-15-07, 04:48 PM
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The inside portion of the wiring to a pool or spa in a one-family residential setting can be "standard" Art. 300 wiring methods. This means you CAN use NM cable inside the house. See 680.21(A)(4)
You MUST change over to THWN in conduit for ALL outside portions.

You say this is a "not permanent" pool. Can you elaborate?
 
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Old 10-15-07, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
You say this is a "not permanent" pool. Can you elaborate?
Yep, it is a soft-sided pool (http://www.sofpool.com/). So, there is no metal except for the portable ladder. The pool is 48" deep.

I just looked up the requirements for the pool pump. Says it needs 110v/20A or 230v/20A. Would it be worth while converting it to 230v while I'm at it? It runs almost all the time in the summer.

~Brent
 
  #10  
Old 10-15-07, 07:04 PM
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No. Not unless it is a long distance from the panel.
 
  #11  
Old 10-15-07, 07:09 PM
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Pools of a specific size qualify as permanent even if they are taken down each year and put back up again. This means they are subject to the same rules and regulations as pools that are not taken down each year.

Further, depending on where you live, even temporary pools need to meet NEC and local requirements for fencing and electrical requirements.

For a pool, the convenience receptacle must be between ten feet and twenty feet from the pool edge. Being outside, it must of course be GFCI protected.

The receptacle for a pool pump must be at least five feet from the edge of the pool. It cannot be closer. If between five and ten feet it must have a twist lock connector. If further out than ten feet the connector does not need to be twist lock. Cord and plug connected pools need to be GFCI protected. The pump can be as close to the pool as you want it to be, it is only the receptacle that must meet the five feet requirement.
 
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Old 10-16-07, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by racraft View Post
Are you aware of the bonding requirements?
I thought I understood the bonding issue but I was just reading some more and I am a little confused. I understand that I am to connect anything metal within 5' to the bonding bar on the hot tub with 8AWG bare copper wire.

The part that confuses me is 680.26(C). My hot tub will be surrounded on all sides by landscape rock or grass. So, am I correct that I need to construct a 12"x12" grid of 8AWG bare copper wire that extends out 3' on all sides and connect that to the bonding bar on the hot tub as well? If so, do I bury this a few inches under the surface or what? ..or did I totally misread that.

Thanks again,
Brent
 
  #13  
Old 10-16-07, 05:54 PM
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What code cycle is your area under?
 
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Old 10-16-07, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
What code cycle is your area under?
I'm not sure. Would I have to ask my inspector that or can I look it up somewhere?
 
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Old 10-16-07, 08:53 PM
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A call to your local building office would actually be easiest.
 
  #16  
Old 10-18-07, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
What code cycle is your area under?
I just got an email from our inspector and he says we follow the 2005 NEC.
 
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Old 10-18-07, 12:42 PM
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I just realized. You say stones and grass. This is not a paved surface. No added grid is necessary.
 
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Old 10-18-07, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
I just realized. You say stones and grass. This is not a paved surface. No added grid is necessary.
Cool. Thanks for the help.
 
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