Is this electric wiring to stove OK? (see picture)

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  #1  
Old 10-17-07, 08:07 PM
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Is this electric wiring to stove OK? (see picture)

I have a heavy 220V cable comes from the basement main service box, to the second floor and is directly screwed into the electric stove. I have the metallic cover taken off for this picture. The stove is pulled out from the cabinetry to expose the wire.

Is this OK to directly wire in like this or do I need to terminate the cable in a recepticle? I am getting a new stove.

If not OK, how best to remedy this?

See here: http://www.taketimeyoga.com/is_the_electric_OK.htm
 
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  #2  
Old 10-18-07, 08:10 AM
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It is okay to directly wire the range, however I prefer a receptacle and range cord. A surface mounted range receptacle is trivial to install.

I can't quite tell from the picture, but it looks like the cable has been crimped and damaged near the yellow thing. If so, then you should definitely remove that section of cable and install a receptacle instead. If the cable has only three wires, use a NEMA 10-50R receptacle; if it has four wires, use a NEMA 14-50R receptacle. The cable (or range cord) should have a cable clamp where it enters the range.
 
  #3  
Old 10-18-07, 09:45 AM
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NEC 422.31 and 422.33 requires a disconnect for the range.

If the breaker that powers the range is within sight of the range......OR..... is capable of being locked in the open position, you can use it as the disconnecting means.
If this is the case, the range can be hard wired (permanently connected).
Breaker locks are available for most 2 pole breakers.

.....otherwise......

A flexible cord, plug and receptacle can be used as the disconnecting means.
It must be accessible by removing the bottom drawer of the range.

Some ranges with warming ovens do not have a removable bottom drawer.
In that case, a breaker lock will have to be used.

Just my opinion
steve
 
  #4  
Old 10-18-07, 05:19 PM
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wiring the electric stove

Steve...

If I can get a breaker lock out (must be for safety concerns for the installation person) for the circuit breaker, then it appears from what you are saying about the code that I could directly wire that in. The breaker box is in the basement, this is on the 3rd floor.

Also there are two circuit breakers for this three wire cable, a 50 amp for each, and the neutral. Is that proper?

~snip~

If the breaker is capable of being locked in the open position, you can use it as the disconnecting means.
If this is the case, the range can be hard wired (permanently connected).
Breaker locks are available for most 2 pole breakers.
 
  #5  
Old 10-18-07, 08:31 PM
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Only thing I can add is that I do not see any strain relief (clamp) on the cable where it comes through the knockout of the wiring enclosure. On the new range you need to install a clamp in the entry hole or some kind of strain relief device if you hardwire the new range.

I would highly recommend running a new '4' wire (H-H-N-Grd) branch circuit if it is not overly difficult. But as the saying goes "sometimes you have to crack a few eggs to make an omlete."

Otherwise it looks like you have an existing 3 wire circuit with insulated neutral. So if you keep what you have be sure the bonding jumper is in place between the neutral terminal and the frame of your new range. Should all be spelled out in the new ranges installation instructions.....probably look something like this....one thing I ran into recently was they had 2 bonding jumpers...one to the frame for the burners and oven and one to the "snap on" top where your controls are located. First time I ever saw this, the range was a magic chef. Anyway on 3 wire connections as you have there be sure the factory grounding jumper(s) are in place on the new range.
 
  #6  
Old 10-18-07, 09:45 PM
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wiring the electric stove

THanks ibpooks... ! If I install a receptacle I'll use the three wire receptacle.

Dave
 
  #7  
Old 10-19-07, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by dvarga View Post
Steve...

If I can get a breaker lock out (must be for safety concerns for the installation person)

Also there are two circuit breakers for this three wire cable, a 50 amp for each, and the neutral. Is that proper?
Yes, the lock-out is for safety reasons.
It keeps someone from turning the breaker on while someone else is working on the range circuit .
It's also required by the electrical code (see my first post).

If you're using a 50A breaker and NM cable, the circuit wire size must be #6 copper (minimum).

The breaker for the range must be a "common trip" 2 pole breaker instead of (2) individual single pole breakers.

This assures that if the breaker is turned off or "trips" the range circuit will be completely dead (de-energized).

If using individual breakers and only one breaker tripped, the stove circuit would still be live (hot).
This wouldn't be good (or safe) for anyone working on the stove or circuit.

On a 3 wire range circuit (existing only) there are 2 "hot" wires and 1 neutral wire.
The (2) "hot" (un-grounded) conductors attach to the 2 pole breaker.
The neutral (grounded) conductor attaches directly to the ground bar in the breaker panel.

Be sure to follow Roger's advice when connecting (and bonding) the neutral to the range.

Just my opinion

steve

PS.....I just lookes at your picture again.

Is the existing cable marked?
It looks like #6 NM (non-metallic) which is OK
If it's flexible cord (SJ, SO, TC, etc.) it's not permitted by code for this use.
What does it say on the cover....give all the info.
 
  #8  
Old 10-21-07, 09:10 AM
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wiring to a range

Steve (and thanks Roger...)

First, in the electric box there IS a double pole 50 amp 220/240 circuit breaker. My mistake, there was a double on there. And I have to get a breaker lock today for it as today they will bring in the new electric stove.

The cable is three wire, all insulated. The markings are:
E10816F, NM non-metallic sheathed 600V 8-30. Don't know if it is aluminum or metal at this point, cannot see in the box and dont want to see the terminated ending and disturb the person on that floor.

I think that is all of the information.

Dave

Is the existing cable marked?
It looks like #6 NM (non-metallic) which is OK
If it's flexible cord (SJ, SO, TC, etc.) it's not permitted by code for this use.
What does it say on the cover....give all the info.
 
  #9  
Old 10-21-07, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by dvarga View Post
Steve (and thanks Roger...)

The cable is three wire, all insulated. The markings are:
E10816F, NM non-metallic sheathed 600V 8-30. Don't know if it is aluminum or metal at this point, cannot see in the box and dont want to see the terminated ending and disturb the person on that floor.

Dave
The minimum branch circuit capacity (allowed by code) is 8 KW. NEC 220.55
Normally used is a 40 amp circuit @ 230V (240V) for a single, free standing range. This equates to 9.6KW.

This rest of this post is assuming that it's copper cable, and your house voltage is 230V.

If the voltage is other than 230V (240V), all the numbers will have to be adjusted.

That "8" in the description tells me that it"s #8 NM cable.
If so, I would use a 40A breaker (this is the max allowed by code on #8 NM Copper).

If the cable is aluminum, it can't (legally) be used for a range circuit because #8 NM aluminum cable is only rated for 30 amps . NEC 310.16
This is only 7.2 KW @ 240V

I'll bet that it's copper, but I would make sure.
If #8 NM copper, I would buy a 40A double pole breaker and replace that 50A.

What do you mean "disturb the person on that floor"?
Is this in a apartment (building), or rented house?
If so, this changes things.
NEC 334.10, 334.80 & NEC Table 310.16

This is Just my opinion.
I won't be held liable for the use or mis-use of this information.
Use it at your own risk.
You're the one responsible for doing the work correctly, safely and to all applicable law.
My disclaimer for today

hope this helps
steve
 
  #10  
Old 10-21-07, 12:18 PM
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wiring

Steve,

It is an apartment in a 2 apt. multifamily house. Also the wire is copper. I could have an electrician change out the circuit breaker to be a 40 amp. What differences are there if it is to such an apartment?

The Appliance store installers will install the new range today.

And thanks for your opinions...
 
  #11  
Old 10-22-07, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by dvarga View Post
Steve,

It is an apartment in a 2 apt. multifamily house. Also the wire is copper. I could have an electrician change out the circuit breaker to be a 40 amp. What differences are there if it is to such an apartment?
First of all....
If the apartment doesn't belong to you, it belongs to someone else.
I doubt if your landlord (or apartment owner) allows their tenants to do electrical work in their apartments.
I would certainly check with them first.
Also, depending on where you live, it could be illegal.

Another thing....
Type NM electrical cable is only allowed in multi-family dwellings that are TYPE III, IV and V construction. NEC 334.10

The rating of the construction type has to do with the building materials, method of construction, and the fire rating of the building .

NEC Annex E "Types of construction" lists the types of and description of the various types.

Even though the type NM cable might have been permitted in the building that you live in at the time of its construction, and (maybe) "grandfathered in"...that is allowed to remain..... if you modify or make any changes to the (existing) wiring circuit, you may be violating the Electrical Code and/or your local building codes.

I may be overstating the problem/concern, but I can't tell from where I am.

I repeat....I would definitely notify my apartment land lord/owner about any changes that I plan to (or have) made to the apartment.

If you violate any codes and cause a risk (such as fire) to the other tenents, or the building, it will probably be your responsibility.

I'm not trying to scare you, but you need to know (and act on) these things.

This is only my personal opinion, nothing more.
I won't be responsible for or held liable for it's use or mis-use.
It's up to you to do any work safely and according to any applicable building codes or law.
My first disclaimer for today

Hope this helps
steve
 
  #12  
Old 10-22-07, 04:30 PM
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wiring

Thanks Steve...

I own the multifamily house.

I'll look up those different type houses.

Thanks again.
 
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