phone wiring help

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  #1  
Old 10-21-07, 08:32 PM
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phone wiring help

I needed a phone jack in a new room. I decided to move the phone wire from another room where i didnt need phone anymore.

I disconnected the wire from the jack and connected the phone wire to another piece of wire( additional wire that came without the end plugs) . i dont get the dial tone now.

How do i figure out what went wrong. How can i tell if i crimped properly? can one short circuit a phone connection

thanks

christy
 
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  #2  
Old 10-21-07, 09:01 PM
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Phone jacks in a house are typically connected in a daisy-chain fashion, with the cable running from jack to jack to jack. Was there just one set of wires coming into the box? Or were there more than one? If you disrupt the wiring in a box, you can cause many jacks to stop working.

The wires are also small and easy to break. So it's possible you broke one.

Your post is woefully short of details. Can you tell us how many wires are in the box, what colors they are, and what exactly you did? There are two main standards in home wiring, one with red, green, yellow and black, and one using orange, orange/white, blue, blue/white, and often two other pairs. What have you got?
 
  #3  
Old 10-21-07, 10:15 PM
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well, the jack that i removed was actually a fake jack...there was a coupler in the wall. i basically removed the wire from the coupler and cut the plug..then i connected green to green, yellow to yellow, red to red and black to black..using small crimps. I put a plug at the other end of the now connected wire.

what is a box...main junction box?



Originally Posted by John Nelson View Post
Phone jacks in a house are typically connected in a daisy-chain fashion, with the cable running from jack to jack to jack. Was there just one set of wires coming into the box? Or were there more than one? If you disrupt the wiring in a box, you can cause many jacks to stop working.

The wires are also small and easy to break. So it's possible you broke one.

Your post is woefully short of details. Can you tell us how many wires are in the box, what colors they are, and what exactly you did? There are two main standards in home wiring, one with red, green, yellow and black, and one using orange, orange/white, blue, blue/white, and often two other pairs. What have you got?
 
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Old 10-21-07, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by christy123 View Post
well, the jack that i removed was actually a fake jack
Could you explain that? You mean it wasn't connected?
...there was a coupler in the wall. i basically removed the wire from the coupler and cut the plug..
There should have been no plug. Was this cat 3 phone wire or premade phone cords.?If the latter sounds like some one was doing some jerry rigging.
put a plug at the other end of the now connected wire.
Do you mean a female jack? The wiring sounds weird at best.
what is a box...main junction box?
Thats the NID (Network Interface Device). It's where the phone line from the phone company terminates and your wiring begins. Usually out side. On a newer one there is a jack where you can plug in a phone to test if you have a dial tone.

Do you have DSL? If so there may be a filter problem. Post back. Phone wiring is pretty straight forward and easy... unless your trying to figure out someone else's screw up and as I said it sounds like the previous person might have done something odd. Might be better to just run new wire from the NID. Are you sure when you uncoupled the wires you hooked on to the one feeding the connection and not the one being fed?
 

Last edited by ray2047; 10-21-07 at 10:50 PM. Reason: Add more info
  #5  
Old 10-22-07, 05:07 AM
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Did you even test if these lines were live before you attempted to extend them?

If they weren't live there, then you will have to see if you can figure out where they go.

When you say that you have no dial tone now, do you mean on this extension, or anywhere in the house?
 
  #6  
Old 10-22-07, 06:37 AM
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this line was working .. they had used a premade phone cord and connected it to a coupler. the rest of the phones are working ...just this one lost dial tone.certainly something to do with what i did.

I could have just connected a longer premade cord but i decided to connect them properly to avoid static etc.


Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
Could you explain that? You mean it wasn't connected?
There should have been no plug. Was this cat 3 phone wire or premade phone cords.?



It's where the phone line from the phone company terminates and your wiring begins. Usually out side. On a newer one there is a jack where you can plug in a phone to test if you have a dial tone.

Do you have DSL? If so there may be a filter problem. Post back. Phone wiring is pretty straight forward and easy... unless your trying to figure out someone else's screw up and as I said it sounds like the previous person might have done something odd. Might be better to just run new wire from the NID. Are you sure when you uncoupled the wires you hooked on to the one feeding the connection and not the one being fed?
 
  #7  
Old 10-22-07, 06:56 AM
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if your interest is in doing it right

then do it right

get some solid cat 3 cable and go from the new location to the NID or to another properly wired jack

trying to "splice " stranded line cord isn't "doing it right " and will always be problematic
 
  #8  
Old 10-22-07, 07:35 AM
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You should have left that jack in place, and just added wire to extend it to another jack.
 
  #9  
Old 10-22-07, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by racraft View Post
You should have left that jack in place, and just added wire to extend it to another jack.
there was no jack.....the jack was basically a coupler that had premade phone cord connected from inside the wall and another cord connecting the other end of the coupler to the phone.
 
  #10  
Old 10-22-07, 07:55 AM
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Then you should have installed a jack at this location.

Go back to your connection, install a jack. Get that jack working. Then connect your new cable and get the jack at the final location working.

When you removed the "coupler" that was installed, did you happen to note which two wires were being used for the phone line?
 
  #11  
Old 10-22-07, 08:48 AM
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we have two lines...so i am assuming both pairs were being used. Not sure how installing jack would help.


Originally Posted by racraft View Post
Then you should have installed a jack at this location.

Go back to your connection, install a jack. Get that jack working. Then connect your new cable and get the jack at the final location working.

When you removed the "coupler" that was installed, did you happen to note which two wires were being used for the phone line?
 
  #12  
Old 10-22-07, 08:57 AM
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Install a jack at this location (even if 'ts only temporary) to determine which wires you need to use, and to verify proper functionality at the junction. Then proceed on to the final point.
 
  #13  
Old 10-22-07, 08:59 AM
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Ok thanks...will try that

Originally Posted by racraft View Post
Install a jack at this location (even if 'ts only temporary) to determine which wires you need to use, and to verify proper functionality at the junction. Then proceed on to the final point.
 
  #14  
Old 10-22-07, 09:25 AM
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Might want to make up a "test" phone. Buy a cheap surface mount phone jack. Connect 12" of "lamp" cord to the red and green screws. Install alligator clips to the other end of the cord. Plug a cheap hand held phone into the jack. This will allow you to check wires for a dial tone quickly.
 
  #15  
Old 10-22-07, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
Might want to make up a "test" phone. Buy a cheap surface mount phone jack. Connect 12" of "lamp" cord to the red and green screws. Install alligator clips to the other end of the cord. Plug a cheap hand held phone into the jack. This will allow you to check wires for a dial tone quickly.
on one of the jacks, i noticed that two wire that came from nic were lavender and white. does it matter how i connect the wires. does green(assuming red and white have dial tone) go with lavender or white...or does it not matter
 
  #16  
Old 10-22-07, 09:53 AM
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For modern telephones it does not matter if you mix up the two wires. Older telephones would not ring if you got the lines backwards, but newer lines do not care.

But as to your question, the wires can be an color. Make both ends of the wires the same for consistency.

I always recommend that you buy and use a phone tester that will help you get the wires connected properly. It plugs into a jack and lights one LED if connected properly, another LED if connected backwards, and no LEDs if one wire (or both wires) is (are) not connected.
 
  #17  
Old 10-22-07, 10:02 AM
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one more question...since i have two lines running , would red/green and black/yellow each carry a line...or can one have more than two phone #s on one pair.

this might sound stupid but hey this is my first time playing with phone wires.
 
  #18  
Old 10-22-07, 11:06 AM
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Two normal residential phone lines cannot share a pair of wires, each line requires a separate pair.
 
  #19  
Old 10-23-07, 10:51 AM
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Ok..i tried to connect it to the jack..didnt work. ended up diverting another wire from another jack...reconnected the wire to the jack..it is working with the two line phone...

however when i put a two line splitter (the one that has L1, L2 and L1L2 spots,)..i get dial tone only in L1L2 spot and nothing on L1 or L2.
 
  #20  
Old 10-23-07, 01:29 PM
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Does a "2-line splitter" mean a device that will "expand" 2 pairs , each pair "split" into 2 connection-points ?
 
  #21  
Old 10-23-07, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by PATTBAA View Post
Does a "2-line splitter" mean a device that will "expand" 2 pairs , each pair "split" into 2 connection-points ?
it is really not an adaptor...it says it is "2 line triplex adaptor"
 
  #22  
Old 10-23-07, 02:39 PM
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ithe other thing that i noted is that when i connect only one pair( red/green) or yellow/black to the jack..i dont get a dial tone at all....all 4 wires have to be connected to get a dial tone.
 
  #23  
Old 10-23-07, 02:52 PM
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you might consider hiring a Pro to straighten the mess out and get things wired right for you
 
  #24  
Old 10-23-07, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mango man View Post
you might consider hiring a Pro to straighten the mess out and get things wired right for you

Mango man..this mess was actually created by pro!
 
  #25  
Old 10-23-07, 10:51 PM
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By using a home-made test phone such as I suggested in my last post you can find out which two wires actually have a dial tone. Lot simpler probably though just to run new cat-3 from the NID and abandon the existing wire.
 
  #26  
Old 10-24-07, 11:16 AM
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It may help if you can distinguish beteen a "wire" and a "cable"--- if four wires are combined together inside a "jacket" , then it's a "cable".

Also , think in terms of "pairs" --- a cable with 4 "wires" is a "2-pair" cable , and it's important to indentify the "pairs" in the cable , usallly by a color-code, and different cable types can have different colors for the cable pairs.

A 4-pair cable can be extended to another location by connecting a 2-pair cable to the 4-pair cable if only 2 pairs are needed , and a 2-pair cable can be extended by connecting a 4-pair cable to the 2-pair cable, two of the pairs not connected.

What is important in such connections when Cable 1 is conntected to Cable 2 is the correct identification of the pairs at both the connection point and the termination point.

I suggest you dis-connect your connection , and indentify the pairs of the existing cable --- the "Primary" pair ( Line 1 ) could be Red/Green , and the "Secondary" pair ( Line 2 ) could be Black/Yelllow. If the existing cable has different colors for indentifying the pairs , you will have to determine which pair is "Line 1" and which pair is "Line 2" , presuming the existing cable has two "active" pairs.

I suggest you test the pairs with a multi-meter than can test for 50 volts D.C but "proceed with caution" --- it's possible to read 50 volts between one wire of the pair of "Line 1" and one wire of the pair for "Line 2" , and these two wires are not a "pair.

"Boy On Girl Baby Soon" = "Blue" (Pair 1) "Orange" ( Pair2 ) "Green" ( pair 3 ) "Brown ( Pair 4 ) "Slate ( pair 5 )
 
  #27  
Old 10-24-07, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by christy123 View Post
Mango man..this mess was actually created by pro!

he may have charged for his services but he was no pro
 
  #28  
Old 10-24-07, 04:02 PM
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i tried connecting the pairs separately..no dial tone when connected separately but get a dial tone and both lines work when both pairs are connected.
i put the two line modular adapter in othe jacks..individual ports dont work anywhere....

could it be because i have cox phone service which is basically VOIP?

co
Originally Posted by PATTBAA View Post
It may help if you can distinguish beteen a "wire" and a "cable"--- if four wires are combined together inside a "jacket" , then it's a "cable".

Also , think in terms of "pairs" --- a cable with 4 "wires" is a "2-pair" cable , and it's important to indentify the "pairs" in the cable , usallly by a color-code, and different cable types can have different colors for the cable pairs.

A 4-pair cable can be extended to another location by connecting a 2-pair cable to the 4-pair cable if only 2 pairs are needed , and a 2-pair cable can be extended by connecting a 4-pair cable to the 2-pair cable, two of the pairs not connected.

What is important in such connections when Cable 1 is conntected to Cable 2 is the correct identification of the pairs at both the connection point and the termination point.

I suggest you dis-connect your connection , and indentify the pairs of the existing cable --- the "Primary" pair ( Line 1 ) could be Red/Green , and the "Secondary" pair ( Line 2 ) could be Black/Yelllow. If the existing cable has different colors for indentifying the pairs , you will have to determine which pair is "Line 1" and which pair is "Line 2" , presuming the existing cable has two "active" pairs.

I suggest you test the pairs with a multi-meter than can test for 50 volts D.C but "proceed with caution" --- it's possible to read 50 volts between one wire of the pair of "Line 1" and one wire of the pair for "Line 2" , and these two wires are not a "pair.

"Boy On Girl Baby Soon" = "Blue" (Pair 1) "Orange" ( Pair2 ) "Green" ( pair 3 ) "Brown ( Pair 4 ) "Slate ( pair 5 )
 
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