Condo kitchen rewire

Old 11-22-07, 04:23 PM
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Condo kitchen rewire

Hi all,

Been reading a lot on this forum lately, now I have some questions

Recently purchased a condo, built in 1975 and decided to raise the ceiling in the kitchen (it was about a foot lower than the rest of the house, only to house a couple of flourescent lights. In removing that lower ceiling, I found a couple of electrical (metal) conduits that were in the way of me raising the ceiling to 8 feet. I also have opened up the entire kitchen wall on the sink side to make a passthrough, so I have a good look at the electrical on that side. Seems everything is run through metal conduit (EMT I guess it's called).

There are 2 metal pipes in the way of me raising the ceiling, and after opening the panel I can see that one pipe contains a red and a white wire, and the other pipe (which goes to the sink side of the kitchen) contains 2 black, 2 white, and a red wire.

What I would like to do is replace all of this with romex and get rid of the metal tubing for these few circuits. I have clear access to the panel, the ceiling, and the wall that I need to rewire. Does this sound reasonable?

Also I am confused by the 2 black, 2 white, and one red wire run. I am assuming the red wire shares a neutral.

Another item, there are several breakers in the panel that have 2 handles side by side (i.e. in a line, not stacked). What are these called, I haven't seen them before?

I plan to rewire the whole right side of the kitchen where there will be 2 countertop outlets, a dishwasher and a disposal.

I also probably need a dedicated circuit for a new microwave that will go over the range.

Interestingly I found that the current circuit that the refrigerator outlet is on also has an additional countertop outlet and 3 dining room receptacles on it. Is this ok?

So here's what I need to power:

2 counter outlets on right (sink) side
1 counter outlet on left (refrigerator) side
Kitchen lights (4 small recessed can lights)

Here are the existing breakers:

1 - Kitchen (left) - this has the refrigerator, one counter outlet, and 3 dining room outlets on it
2 - Dishwasher/disposal (can I leave these on the same circuit? Seems to me you're not supposed to run the disposal with the dw anyway)
3 - Kitchen (right) - 2 countertop outlets and lights were on this circuit
4 - Trash compactor (currently unused since TC was removed)

These are all 20A breakers

Any advice on how I should rewire this? I'd like to avoid adding a breaker if possible, but I do have 2 open slots. I was planning on using one of them for a ceiling fan in the family room, but maybe I could add that to an existing circuit?

Thanks in advance, this is a bit confusing!
Old 11-22-07, 05:32 PM
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What you are describing as number 3 does not meet code. Lights may not share a circuit that serves the counter top receptacles.

The other circuits are legal. However, I would not run them this way.

Do you know if NM-B cable is legal where you live? Conduit may be required.

Never assume anything. You could kill yourself assuming something.

The conduit containing the red wire, two blacks and two whites may be a shared neutral circuit, or it may be a 1240 volt circuit. Look at the panel to be sure. never assume anything. You could kill yourself assuming something.

I recommend 6 circuits, as follows:

1) Refrigerator
2) Microwave
3) shared, Dishwasher and Disposal
4 and 5) Counter top receptacles and dining room receptacles.
6) Kitchen lights (4 small recessed can lights)
Old 11-22-07, 11:05 PM
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Thank you for the response. I live in Florida, and romex is legal here in residential homes; I need to check about the condo.

First, about #3, I'm not sure that the countertop and lights were on the same circuit after all. I seem to remember when we were taking out the old dishwasher (direct wired) that when I shutoff that breaker it also took out the kitchen lights. Kind of a moot point now since I have removed it. In the new plan I know that I cannot have the kitchen counter receptacles and lights on the same circuit (from reading these forums!).

I hadn't considered rewiring the current refrigerator circuit (mainly because I haven't opened up that wall. But you did say it is legal the way it is right?

I also plan on adding a ceiling fan to the adjacent family room (no existing ceiling wiring is there). If I do add a circuit for only the kitchen lights, can I place this new ceiling fan on the same circuit, and possibly some recessed can lights over the kitchen pass-through?

Old 11-22-07, 11:53 PM
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The refrigerator circuit is legal since the only other receptacles on that circuit are located in the kitchen/panty/dining area. If you are sure about this then it is legal.

Incidentally, that one other lone countertop receptacle on that left side circuit was the only thing keeping your kitchen legit code-wise. (This is assuming the lights were never on circuit #3 as you first thought.)

If you choose to run a new dedicated circuit for the fridge you are free to use 14ga/15amp if you so desire. (I'd still personally do 20A though.) Or you can just leave the whole circuit alone of course.

And yes, you can put your family room fan on the same new circuit as your kitchen lights. Kitchen-wise, there are no restrictions on lighting like there are for receptacles.

Really, aside from resolving that lighting issue, I see nothing that really _needs_ to be changed here.
Old 11-23-07, 10:37 PM
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Thank you very much for the help!

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