Unique wiring challenge

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Old 12-15-07, 09:16 PM
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Unique wiring challenge

I have european fridge that I want to use in the U.S. The appliance uses 220-240v~50hz with a type f plug. I want to wire a type f socket in my basement to power the fridge. I'm assuming it would have to be wired in a similar fashion as a dryer or hot tub. I don't think that the 50hz should be a problem even though I have 60 hz service. Any thoughts on how to wire the appliance in the US would be appreciated.
 
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Old 12-15-07, 09:24 PM
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Refrigerators have motors that power the compressor. A/C motors are wound to the frequency of the electricity they will be using. Looking around, it looks like it may work, but might run a little hotter/faster and use more energy. Some small motors are designed for 50 & 60 (probably compromise a bit at each frequency). I would test it out if you can; maybe with a 120v to 240v converter.
 
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Old 12-15-07, 10:17 PM
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Give up. Buy another refrigerator.
 
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Old 12-15-07, 10:28 PM
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If for instance uniqueness of design is the reason you want a functioning refrigerator then change out the compressor for a 120v 60 Hz one. If you just want to keep your beer cold, as suggested, buy another refrigerator.

Guessing but a European 240v may have one hot and one neutral. Mark can probably comment on that but if so running it on two hots could be a hazard.
 
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Old 12-16-07, 12:37 AM
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Which Mark or Marc you want to ask about this ??


Anyway for the 240 v 50HZ appalinces IMO it is not a good idea to run in USA system at all because the USA system the 240 volts is line to line compared to the European system is Line to Netural so that make the diffrence and as far for safety point of view it can have potintal a shock hazrous [sp] situation.

the other issue with the 50/60 HZ situation most european stuff dont run very well with 60 HZ system at all not only it will speed up the motor operation but it will affect the performace on it.

for some reason if your refridgeator did have rating for both 50 and 60 HZ then it can be used in 60 HZ system but to hook up it will be tricky in some case.

one obovus reason is the colour code is diffrent if you attempt to change the repectale or cord.

yeah i done few of them but each case is diffrent so i cant tell from here until i know more details.

[ belive or not but it is true with european code in kitchen circuit we used the RCD [ same as GFCI here ] ]

so yeah you need a GFCI a two pole verison if you put in Kitchen area or wet bar area those two area is pretty strict with it btw the two pole GFCI breaker is not cheap.

Strategery:

yeah you can used the converter but most converter dont change the HZ at all most are basically a transformer to change the voltage but very few good converter can change both voltage and HZ but i dont know if they will work with GFCI i know it can trip if not set up right.

if have more question please post it here

Merci, Marc
 
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Old 12-16-07, 10:03 AM
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Sorry about misspelling your name, Marc.
 
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Old 12-16-07, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by wamp73 View Post
I have european fridge that I want to use in the U.S. The appliance uses 220-240v~50hz with a type f plug. I want to wire a type f socket in my basement to power the fridge. I'm assuming it would have to be wired in a similar fashion as a dryer or hot tub. I don't think that the 50hz should be a problem even though I have 60 hz service. Any thoughts on how to wire the appliance in the US would be appreciated.

you'd want to check to see if the compressor can run at 60hrtz but most newer euros can run on both 50-60 hrtz


If you look behind the back service panel of the reefer, you might find the schematic
 
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Old 12-16-07, 11:33 AM
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The compressor's label has it marked 220-240v ~ 50Hz. The fridge is a large side by side that I was given free (costs roughly $2000) and is brand new. Somebody mentioned changing the compressor to a 120v but if I did that wouldn't I also have to change some of the electronics in the fridge? My basement is only roughed in, so I could do almost anything to wire it.
 
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Old 12-16-07, 12:01 PM
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the easiest way would be a step up transformer.

they sell these with the euro outlets also

you need the amp rating of the fridge check here for sizing somewhere around 1800 watts I'd think??

http://www.voltage-converter-transfo...ansformer.html

 

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Old 12-16-07, 11:10 PM
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but if I did that wouldn't I also have to change some of the electronics in the fridge?
Yes, I am old school before refrigerators had electronics so probably mine was not a good suggestion.
 
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Old 12-17-07, 04:54 AM
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Refrigeration compressors use a thermal winding protector that would not allow the compressor to operate at the warmer temperature you would see running it at 50 htz.

And besides, here and I suspect where you are you are not permitted to use an electrical device that does not have a locally accepted approval.
 
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Old 12-18-07, 07:39 PM
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So would using the fridge with a step-up ransformer be unsafe then? I don't want to cause my house to burn down.
 
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Old 12-18-07, 08:44 PM
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No one can say if your house would burn down.
This question would be answered if your fridge was approved for use with the transformer which it would never be.
 
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Old 12-19-07, 04:24 AM
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Reply from Norway!
We have a lot of 230V 50Hz with no Neutral in Norway, all common European 230V refreigators are made with full insulation on both lines.
The 60 use to cause less problems on a 50 hz motor than the oposit.
I would have changed the plug to an american style 240 V with ground.
The usual fuse size is 10 or 16 amps on a regular outlet here.

(Moast European counties has 2 round plugs + the grounding configured as the plug could be turned 180 degrees.
GB, Denmark, Switzerland has a non reversible plug, moast others uses teh German system, where the grounded plug even meay be used in an old ungrounded outlet. All new installations has ground. )

dsk
 
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Old 12-19-07, 06:00 AM
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Hmmm...

It sounds like what he is saying is the compressor/frige runs on two Hot 115 vac opposing legs and no neutral. I'd pull the service panel on the frig and take a look for the wiring diagram. Maybe scan it and post it on photobucket.

On the step up transformer question.

it has it's own fuse and is a heavy duty transformer with a ul 125vac plug and can handle 50 or 60 hertz apps.

we use step up or step down tranformers all the time to change voltages in commercial industrial building apps.

Your house runs off of a step down transformer on the pole or on the ground

I wouldn't worry about a fire or anything like that. My concern from the beginning was the frequency being at 50 hertz causing too much heat and ending the compressors life a lot earlier then normal.

I think it would run without kicking out the thermal overloads on the compressor at first.. but how long the compressor would last is another story. 1 week, 2 months, 1 year, 2 years, 5 year???

older plants in the USA ran 50 htz motors on 60htz services with no problems.

they also sell frequency converters but you'd be talking a lot of money.
 
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Old 12-20-07, 12:25 AM
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Experince on running motors on wrong HZ:

Running a 50 Hz motor on 60Hz and 100-120% voltage is ok.
Oposite the 60Hz motor tend to be to hot on 50 Hz.
The 50 Hz seems to demand more iron in the cores, than the 60 Hz. The 60 hz motors run Ok on 50Hz if well oversized.

dsk
 
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Old 12-20-07, 12:24 PM
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"It sounds like what he is saying is the compressor/frige runs on two Hot 115 vac opposing legs and no neutral."

Close, but actually DSK is referring to is two lines of a three phase system.
(127V/220V WYE) In many older parts of Europe they would supply cusomers with two lines from a 3 phase transformer and no neutral. Hence 220 Volts line to line but 127 Volts to ground.
Split 115/230V (actually 120/240) single phase that we use in the US is actually peculiar to the North American Continent. But, I digress, what he is refering to is the fact that European appliances are required to treat both leads as potentially hot. ie switching both wires instead of just the hot lead
 
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