Carlon blue ENT

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Old 12-19-07, 11:44 PM
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Carlon blue ENT

Hello,
I am trying to run a couple of new circuts from my basement up to my attic. I would like to use carlon blue ENT as a raceway for the thhn because some of the holes I need to drill for the run may be a little offset which would make rigid conduit almost impossible to run unless I tear down a lot of sheetrock. My question is, what junction boxes should I use and also am I allowed to use a junction box for the wires to just pass through without any splices in situations where I would need access to make the pull a little easier.
I would prefer to have the ENT terminate at a box in the attic where the thhn would be spliced together with romex to run to the areas that will be fed with the new circuts
Using romex for individual runs all the way up from the basement is our of the question since I am looking to run six or more circuts.
 
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Old 12-20-07, 05:17 AM
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How old is your house? Currently, we run an additional run of 2" conduit from the attic to the basement to accommodate future wiring needs. HOWEVER, this run must remain sealed at all times since it becomes a chimney in the event of a fire. Is it possible the builder/electrician did this in your house? Since you are planning on running conduit and making several additions later on, I would look into this possibility, even if it means making some hole cuts in your plates.
 
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Old 12-20-07, 07:57 AM
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Conduit

The house was built in 1972. I am planning on running
2, 3/4 " flex conduit that will be containing at least 3 circuits each at this time. I will have room for expansion since that is the main purpose for running the new lines (i'm getting rid of the old aluminum wiring.) I just wasn't sure which junction boxes were acceptable. Whichever I go with they will be 4" square deep box to handle the max amount of conductors each conduit can hold.
 
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Old 12-20-07, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by palmcoast View Post
Hello,
My question is, what junction boxes should I use and also am I allowed to use a junction box for the wires to just pass through without any splices in situations where I would need access to make the pull a little easier.
...
I would prefer to have the ENT terminate at a box in the attic where the thhn would be spliced together with romex to run to the areas that will be fed with the new circuts
Using romex for individual runs all the way up from the basement is our of the question since I am looking to run six or more circuts.
Regarding running without splices, yes, that is OK. Usually you want to loop the wires in the box so you have some slack available in case you do want to splice something in the future.

Junction boxes ... Carlon blue plastic etc. are easiest since you can get glue & snap connectors and they do not have to be grounded. Some are built-in. Sizewise you should get the biggest boxes that you have room for. However for excess capacity I do not know what types of extension rings or extra-deep mud rings are available in plastic.

Regarding multiple circuits, you may need to calculate your fill ratio to meet code requirements that limit the cross-sectional area of wire in a raceway.

Regarding running six circuits, I am sure somebody else is better-versed than me, but I seem to recall the NEC requires derating or limits the number of circuits in a raceway. That may be just for metal conduit.

All of this is of course subject to more or less stringent local requirements. You're probably not in Chicago but some other municipalities heavily regulate wiring methods beyond NEC requirements.

Also let me put in a "plug" here for using 12 AWG stranded THHN and backwired devices. Stranded is easier to pull and harder to terminate unless you can backwire. 12 AWG instead of 14 may be a limiting factor in terms of conduit and box fill but as a DIYer I would see no reason to install 15 Amp circuits. That topic, of course, has been beat to death many times.
 

Last edited by ArgMeMatey; 12-20-07 at 08:51 AM. Reason: Add stranded plug
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Old 12-20-07, 09:47 AM
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If six circuits and possibly more in the future why not a sub pane in the attic? Fewer wires to run (though perhaps harder to pull) and easy future expansion. Also it will leave plenty of room for expansion in your main panel.

You don't happen to have two closets that line up on first and second floor do you? If so that might be even easier. For appearance you could box in the conduit after installation.
 
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Old 12-20-07, 07:45 PM
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Wouldn't it be easier just to fish romex? I like the Sub panel idea. Only one feeder to fish and you would have all the circuits you need. If there is enough clearance up there.
 
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Old 12-20-07, 07:53 PM
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When you say "attic", does this mean a walk in attic or someplace you have to crawl around in?
Remember there are specific working clearances associated with electrical equipment.
That being said, unless this is a full blown attic, you don't want to put a panel up there.
Do you want to have to climb around in an attic if you happen to trip a breaker?
 
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Old 12-21-07, 11:49 PM
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The attic

Is a pull down stair type attic so I cannot install a sub panel. I have decided to do the complete rewire job for the upper floor so fishing individual romex for the circuts is out of the question since I only have one wall where the run can be made directly to the attic.
This is my plan so if anyone sees anything out of whack please let me know:
The house presently has aluminum wiring I plan on cutting it and leaving it dead in the walls.
I am going to run all 12 wire for the circuts so they can all be 20 amp. (nowadays with computers game systems etc. I figured that would be a safe bet)
Each bedroom will be on its own circut with the exception of the 4 ceiling fans which are all on one 20 amp circut. They are at a total max. draw of 9 amps.
Each bathroom upstairs will have two 20 amp circuts, 1 for the recepticles and one for the heat lamps.
I am going to run a 1" PVC conduit from the panel to a 6" box in the attic with thhn stranded wire. The 1" PVC is rated for up to 20 #12 conductors so I should have enough for an additional 2 circuts if ever needed. There will be two wire pull access elbows, everthing else is a straight run. From the 6" box there will be two smurf flex conduit with feeds for four circuts each running to a central location on each side of the attic into 4" boxes.
I will then run 12/2 to each bedroom circut dropping down through an interior wall to feed the first receptical and then removing the baseboard, notching the studs and running the wire to each recepticle.
I plan on feeding each bathroom with a 12/3 wire and sharing the nutruel.
 
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Old 12-22-07, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by palmcoast View Post
...
Each bedroom will be on its own circut with the exception of the 4 ceiling fans which are all on one 20 amp circut. They are at a total max. draw of 9 amps.
....
Each bathroom upstairs will have two 20 amp circuts, 1 for the recepticles and one for the heat lamps.
I am going to run a 1" PVC conduit from the panel to a 6" box in the attic with thhn stranded wire.
...
From the 6" box there will be two smurf flex conduit with feeds for four circuts each running to a central location on each side of the attic into 4" boxes.
I will then run 12/2 to each bedroom circut dropping down through an interior wall to feed the first receptical and then removing the baseboard, notching the studs and running the wire to each recepticle.
I plan on feeding each bathroom with a 12/3 wire and sharing the nutruel.
Check your state & local AFCI requirements if you haven't already. Usually required now for bedrooms, I think.

Multiwire (neutral sharing) requires planning and usually common-trip breakers when used with AFCI and GFCI circuits. For example you may be able share the neutral up to the first GFCI, but after that you will need separate neutrals.

4" boxes might get a little cramped with four circuits; another thing about stranded is that it pops out of the box instead of retaining its shape like solid. I'd probably use a 3- or 4- gang although finding blank covers for those may require a visit to the electrical supply house. You can also probably get extension rings for the 4" but I can tell you my 6-gang main under floor junction box works great because all that stranded just lays in there in a long line; no need to loop most of it.

Check structural requirements for stud notching especially if the wall is load bearing. Maybe you just mean cutting a channel in the sheetrock. I know horizontal structural spans are not supposed to be notched, but I really have no clue about vertical framing.

My house is mostly THHN stranded in conduit so it was worthwhile for me to buy lots of colors of stranded 12 to make it easier to trace circuits, including using both white and grey for neutrals. That's especially helpful when splitting off a multiwire at that first GFCI when you use conduit.
 
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Old 12-23-07, 02:10 PM
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AFCA and rewire

My plan was to have the shared nutrual in each bathroom. There would only be one outlet in each bathroom therefore the light circut would share the nurtual with the GFI and the would be on a double trip breaker. If the bedrooms are required to have an AFCA that would only be a matter of changing the breakers right? Or is there something else I have to do when I rewire?
Lastly, I understand what you are saying about notching the studs and I did not think of that. Can you suggest what way may be the easiest way (If there even is an easy way)
 
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Old 12-23-07, 07:41 PM
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I would think you should open up the wall enough to drill a hole in the middle of the studs; that way there's less chance of puncturing the wire with nails, etc. You may also be able to make your runs down to the outlets, then back up to the attic, and down to the next one, etc. I believe AFCI protection is only offered by breakers, so you can just change them if you need protection.
 
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