4-wire cord to a 3-wire receptacle

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  #1  
Old 01-01-08, 01:31 PM
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4-wire cord to a 3-wire receptacle

I recently bought a 4-wire new stove top and am now trying to connect it to an old house (20 years old) 3 -wire receptacle. What is the best way to do it?

My understanding on this subject is that I don't need to mess around with the 3-way receptacle but instead I should work on the 4-wire conduit that came with the new appliance. My thinking is that I should remove the 3-wire plug/cord from the old appliance and connect it the new appliance. While doing this, I should also connect a jumper wire between the neutral wire and the chassis of the new appliance. I should then ignore the copper wire that was connected to the chassis of of the new appliance.

The problem with this approach is that the underside of the new stove top is completely enclosed with metal and I am not sure if I should open it .

Another way is to just work with the 4-wire conduit that came with the new appliance. I can connect the 2 hot wires and the neutral wire to a 3-wire receptacle but then I should also run a wire to connect the neutral to the chassis of the appliance.

Any thoughts?
chingseto08
 
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Old 01-01-08, 01:53 PM
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Welcome to the forums! Don't shoot the piano player, but in order to do this thing right, you need to run a new circuit from your panel with a 4 wire cable to a new 4 wire receptacle box. Do you have access to the wiring, like in a basement, attic, etc so you can do this?
 
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Old 01-01-08, 01:56 PM
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You do not need a new circuit. That is the safest approach.

However, you can legally connect a new four wire appliance to an existing three wire setup. Use the three wire cord and plug that you have. The new range comes with instructions on how to do the wiring. Follow them.
 
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Old 01-01-08, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by racraft View Post
You do not need a new circuit. That is the safest approach.

However, you can legally connect a new four wire appliance to an existing three wire setup. Use the three wire cord and plug that you have. The new range comes with instructions on how to do the wiring. Follow them.

"Use the three wire cord and plug that you have." But how?
I don't find much instructions in the manual. Can someone comment on my own suggestions?
Thanks,
chingseto08
 
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Old 01-01-08, 02:53 PM
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attach a 3 wire cord to your new stove. On the stove there should be some kind of jumper from the neutral and ground to tie them together. Connect the ground there. Connect the hots and your good to go. Plug in and start cookin!
 
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Old 01-01-08, 03:15 PM
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Look at the installation instructions (not necessarily the operating instructions). If you do not have them, get them. They are usually available on the manufacturers web site, or you can call them or email them with questions.
 
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Old 01-01-08, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by chingseto08 View Post
I recently bought a 4-wire new stove top and am now trying to connect it to an old house (20 years old) 3 -wire receptacle. What is the best way to do it?

My understanding on this subject is that I don't need to mess around with the 3-way receptacle but instead I should work on the 4-wire conduit that came with the new appliance. My thinking is that I should remove the 3-wire plug/cord from the old appliance and connect it the new appliance. While doing this, I should also connect a jumper wire between the neutral wire and the chassis of the new appliance. I should then ignore the copper wire that was connected to the chassis of of the new appliance.

The problem with this approach is that the underside of the new stove top is completely enclosed with metal and I am not sure if I should open it .

Another way is to just work with the 4-wire conduit that came with the new appliance. I can connect the 2 hot wires and the neutral wire to a 3-wire receptacle but then I should also run a wire to connect the neutral to the chassis of the appliance.

Any thoughts?
chingseto08

if I get you right, you have a AC or MC cable coming from the stove top with four wires (Black, Red, White & Green). you want to connect these four in a junction box to three existing wires Black White bare ground.

The first thing you need to know is if the stove top is a split voltage top? Another word is 240/120 volt needed, or is this stove top a straight 240 volt top

if 240 vac read these pages on wiring


http://www.amana.com/assets//amana/p...DE/AKT3650.PDF
 
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Old 01-01-08, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Tolyn Ironhand View Post
attach a 3 wire cord to your new stove. On the stove there should be some kind of jumper from the neutral and ground to tie them together. Connect the ground there. Connect the hots and your good to go. Plug in and start cookin!
I guess I do have to open the underside metal encolsure of the new stove top to replace that 4-wire cord with the 3-wire cord/plug from the old appliance.

Thanks very much for all your help.
chingseto08
 
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Old 01-02-08, 11:20 AM
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In general, stoves are manufactured to permit the use of 3 wire or 4 wire connections. The instruction manual that comes with your stove should describe how to make this connection. If not, then the manufacturer should be able to provide the necessary instructions. 3 wire circuits are 'grandfathered' and may be used if they exist, but may not be installed new.

However, it is possible that your stove may only be connected to a 4 wire circuit. The manufacturer could require this for any number of reasons. If your stove requires a 4 wire circuit then you will need to install a new 4 wire circuit.

-Jon
 
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Old 01-02-08, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by winnie View Post
In general, stoves are manufactured to permit the use of 3 wire or 4 wire connections. The instruction manual that comes with your stove should describe how to make this connection. If not, then the manufacturer should be able to provide the necessary instructions. 3 wire circuits are 'grandfathered' and may be used if they exist, but may not be installed new.

However, it is possible that your stove may only be connected to a 4 wire circuit. The manufacturer could require this for any number of reasons. If your stove requires a 4 wire circuit then you will need to install a new 4 wire circuit.

-Jon

As I said before, I was going to open the underside of the new stovetop to replace that conduit 4- wire cable with a 3-wire cord/plug so that I could just plug my new appliance into the old 3-wire receptacle. As I was doing this, I saw a notice on the back saying this conduit cable should not be removed or the warranty on the unit would be voided. I should not touch it if this is the case. Now I have another idea and please advise me if it is workable.

Instead of trying to replace the conduit 4-wire cable, I would remove the old 3-wire receptacle and install a junction box in its place. I will then connect the two hot wires red to red and black to black. The neutral and the ground(copper wire) from the 4-wire conduit will be connected to the neutral of the 3-wire cable from the basement using a pigtail. Case solved. What do you think?

Thanks,
chingseto08
 
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Old 01-02-08, 07:19 PM
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Your idea is wrong.

Post the make and model so that we can find information on-line. Your only safe choice may be to replace the wiring in the house. Even if that is not the only choice, it is certainly the best choice.
 
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Old 01-02-08, 07:38 PM
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I've never seen a stovetop whose installation instructions did not contain detailed information about how to do exactly what you're trying to do. There's no need to get creative. Study the installation instructions again more carefully.
 
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Old 01-02-08, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by racraft View Post
Your idea is wrong.

Post the make and model so that we can find information on-line. Your only safe choice may be to replace the wiring in the house. Even if that is not the only choice, it is certainly the best choice.
Model Jennair JEC9530BDB
Seriel # 10816448LV

Thanks very much for everyone's help.
chingseto08
 
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Old 01-02-08, 09:04 PM
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Based upon the model number, I found the installation instructions. The instructions tell you what to do, and in fact describe doing something that is quite similar to what you suggested doing in post #10. When racraft told you that such an installation was not correct, I completely agreed with him. However I believe that in this case the installation instructions make it clear that it is acceptable.

http://www.jennair.ca/assets/en_CA_8101p495-60.pdf

See the lower left column of page two
"The neutral of this unit is grounded to the frame through the solid copper grounding wire. If used on new branch-circuit installations (1996 NEC), mobile homes, recreational vehicles, or in an area where local codes prohibit grounding through the neutral conductor, untwist or disconnect the solid copper wire and connect the ground wire to ground in accordance with local code."

In other words, as this particular range is designed, for a three wire installation you are supposed to ground the neutral to the frame using the supplied ground wire, presumably at the end of the supply whip in the junction box.

Doesn't seem kosher to me, but there it is in black and white.

-Jon
 
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Old 01-03-08, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by winnie View Post
Based upon the model number, I found the installation instructions. The instructions tell you what to do, and in fact describe doing something that is quite similar to what you suggested doing in post #10. When racraft told you that such an installation was not correct, I completely agreed with him. However I believe that in this case the installation instructions make it clear that it is acceptable.

http://www.jennair.ca/assets/en_CA_8101p495-60.pdf

See the lower left column of page two
"The neutral of this unit is grounded to the frame through the solid copper grounding wire. If used on new branch-circuit installations (1996 NEC), mobile homes, recreational vehicles, or in an area where local codes prohibit grounding through the neutral conductor, untwist or disconnect the solid copper wire and connect the ground wire to ground in accordance with local code."

In other words, as this particular range is designed, for a three wire installation you are supposed to ground the neutral to the frame using the supplied ground wire, presumably at the end of the supply whip in the junction box.

Doesn't seem kosher to me, but there it is in black and white.

-Jon
Jon,

Thanks for taking the time to dig it out for me and for your confirmation. I will try it out this weekend and then report back to the group. Again thanks for all the helps given and you guys are a wonderful group.

chingseto08
 
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Old 01-04-08, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by chingseto08 View Post
Jon,

Thanks for taking the time to dig it out for me and for your confirmation. I will try it out this weekend and then report back to the group. Again thanks for all the helps given and you guys are a wonderful group.

chingseto08
I am sorry to say that there won't be any project this weekend. I was trying to install it just a few hours ago and found that the existing opening is as long as the outer dimension of the new stovetop and therefore I cannot use it and have to return it. Thanks for all the advice and help given. It has been a learning experience for me.

chingseto08
 
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