Need Help with one 240 Circuit

Reply

  #1  
Old 01-03-08, 11:28 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 4
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Need Help with one 240 Circuit

Im not stupid in the electrical sense, BUt this one got me stumped. Its a Square D QO2L30SCP .
i dont know what to bring over to it, we have no room in our panel its needed for a heat element.
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 01-04-08, 04:52 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Wilmington
Posts: 4,219
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Not sure what you mean??? Is there no room for the breaker?? If not, you will need a larger panel or add a sub-panel by moving some of the existing breakers to the sub and installing a breaker for the sub.
 
  #3  
Old 01-04-08, 05:20 AM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 13,973
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
A straight 240 volt circuit needs two wires, plus a ground. If using NM-B cable, you can re-identify the white wire as a hot wire by coloring it with a dark marker.

However, you are describing a load center, which is a small circuit breaker panel. This device is 120/240 and needs three wires plus a ground.

30 amps means 10 gage wire, unless the distance is significant.
 
  #4  
Old 01-04-08, 07:57 AM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: United States
Posts: 18,497
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
i dont know what to bring over to it
What does this mean?
 
  #5  
Old 01-04-08, 08:21 PM
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 54
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
Not sure what you mean??? Is there no room for the breaker?? If not, you will need a larger panel or add a sub-panel by moving some of the existing breakers to the sub and installing a breaker for the sub.
This is not entirely true, some of the 120 breakers can be replaced with smaller 120 breakers (the really thin ones) to make room for a 240. The real issue is making sure that you are not pulling to much amperage for your main breaker. Adding one 240 should not present a problem however.
 
  #6  
Old 01-05-08, 01:52 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 4
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
double post.................
 
  #7  
Old 01-05-08, 01:57 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 4
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
.....

I didnt really have time to type last night, its was kinda a last ditch effort in the midst of wiring the fans and the receps. I got the load center, it doesnt require 10awg because its a 20amp not 30.

My problem is i got room for 3 single pulls in my panel, they are scattered throughout and theres no moving things around and was told i would beable to use the Load center as my 240 breaker for my heater. My question is how am i suppose to bring 240 to the load center if i only have room in my panel for 120s? Like i said my service is getting redone in the spring but the room is going to be my sisters bed room, and needs heat to make it through the winter.
Do I need a double pull 20 in the panel to bring 240 to the load center?
cuz if thats the case the load center is obsolete and there isnt room in the panel.
I was more so confused last night because i sent my father to the Supply Warehouse and they send him home with 12/2. But you say i need 12/3 for a 240.

If this makes any sense at all please help..... Ive been wiring houses for like 2 years i just didnt do much work with 240s one shock is all it took and i was **** scared.

its an old GE panel i can use the skinny single pulls if that helps

do i use 2 single pull 20s? to bring 120 from each over to the load center to total 240?
 
  #8  
Old 01-05-08, 05:31 AM
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 160
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by GenocideF4i View Post
Im not stupid in the electrical sense, BUt this one got me stumped. Its a Square D QO2L30SCP .
i dont know what to bring over to it, we have no room in our panel its needed for a heat element.
Main Lug Loadcenters Br Type - Top Feed Indoor - Surface Mount ``Qo`` Style 1 Box 3.81`` Width X 6.72`` Height X 3.00`` Depth Amp Rating=30

Steel enclosure. Single phase, 3 wire, solid neutral, 2 spaces, 2 circuits, 120/240 volt. 10,000 AIR. No. PK3GTA-1 ground bars sold separately.



NMB 10/3 wire with ground is used as mentioned

first of all you will need to buy a ground bar kit for this panel

neutral wires and ground wires are separated even if you are not going to use the neutral for a 120v application

whites all connect on the existing bar in the box then all the bare copper grounds go on the new ground bar.

black and red wire go to the two main lugs.

in you existing panel you want to put a 30 amp 2 pole breaker in to protect the wiring and panel.

If there isn't room for two spaces as mentioned, they have tandem breakers that puts two 120 volt breakers in one pole space which frees one space up in the panel.

If yours is full, you would need two of these types to free up the two pole spaces you need for the new breaker. Make sure the amp rating is the same as the existing breakers you are removing.. ie; 15-20 amp

some panels wont except these tandem/mini/piggyback style breakers so you have to check your panel



edit.......whoa your latest post just showed up???

You should be able to move the breakers around in your panel to give you a 240 volt circuit.

Why do you say you cant move them
 
  #9  
Old 01-05-08, 09:12 AM
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 54
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Here is a webpage that I have been keeping close since I will be wiring in a sub panel this week or next

http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/e...nel/01/new.htm
 
  #10  
Old 01-05-08, 11:10 AM
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Near Philly
Posts: 559
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
that's a nice website with good info.
 
  #11  
Old 01-07-08, 12:37 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 4
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Red face

i can but it would be a wire nut disaster
=/
 
  #12  
Old 01-07-08, 10:18 AM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
Originally Posted by GenocideF4i View Post
i can but it would be a wire nut disaster
=/
GenocideF4 please don't be offended but it might be helpful if you have a friend or spouse read your posts to check for clarity. Your first post one could only guess at and this one was almost as unclear. Are you saying the connecting wires in the panel are too short and must be extended by attaching short wires with wire nuts? You probably don't need to move more then two or three. With care you should be able to neatly wirenut those.
 
  #13  
Old 01-07-08, 02:48 PM
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 160
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
you can make manual mechanical splices in the main breaker panel.

Take the same size wire of the circuit and extend it by phyically twisting the two stripped pieces together with a pair of lineman side cutters, then use a wire nut to finish the splice and insulation of that splice.

Continue with the ones needed to be extended so you can move the breakers where you need them.

For breakers you only need to splice the hot wires. The neutral and grounds can stay where they are.

then install the new breaker where you made room for it
 
  #14  
Old 01-07-08, 03:02 PM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 21,119
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Wirenuts

Hey Brewaholic...just trying to learn, and I'm sure others will speak up too. I was always under the impression you don't twist solid conductors before you nut 'em. I Know I used to, then somewhere I found out this doesn't allow the nut to "bite" the way it should. Yer thoughts???
 
  #15  
Old 01-07-08, 03:18 PM
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 54
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Gunguy45 View Post
Hey Brewaholic...just trying to learn, and I'm sure others will speak up too. I was always under the impression you don't twist solid conductors before you nut 'em. I Know I used to, then somewhere I found out this doesn't allow the nut to "bite" the way it should. Yer thoughts???
I was told the opposite... always twist the wires. The wire nut is just there to keep the ends from touching anything.
 
  #16  
Old 01-07-08, 03:20 PM
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 160
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Gunguy45 View Post
Hey Brewaholic...just trying to learn, and I'm sure others will speak up too. I was always under the impression you don't twist solid conductors before you nut 'em. I Know I used to, then somewhere I found out this doesn't allow the nut to "bite" the way it should. Yer thoughts???


you alway mechanically twist solid conductors together 14, 12, 10 awg before using a wire nut. This is known as a mechanical bond. Twist them up, then trim the ends to length for the wire nut.


when using stranded wire you don't mechanically twist the wires together. The wire nut does that for you.
 
  #17  
Old 01-07-08, 03:37 PM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 13,973
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
You do not have to twist the wires together. You can if you want to, but you do not have to. Properly done, the connections hold with or without twisting.
 
  #18  
Old 01-07-08, 03:55 PM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 21,119
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Nuts!

As i thought....different thoughts...and its only been 45min...
 
  #19  
Old 01-07-08, 04:10 PM
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 160
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I don't know of one inspector that will allow splicing of multiple hard wires with wire nuts only. 110 goes over splicing as does 250
 
  #20  
Old 01-07-08, 04:25 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 18,493
Received 33 Votes on 25 Posts
Let's not start this "to twist or not to twist" debate again.
 
  #21  
Old 01-07-08, 04:41 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 433
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
^ haha oh do twist, do twist hahahahaha
 
  #22  
Old 01-07-08, 04:45 PM
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 157
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Before you dismiss the topic, how about splicing together solid and stranded to each other? I've had both cases of one solid to one stranded and also several solids which I twist and then how do you add in one or two stranded to that?
 
  #23  
Old 01-07-08, 06:28 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 8
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
You do not twist the stranded. What you will do is lead the stranded ahead of the solid and twist the wire nut on the wires making sure you have a good connection. After you have twisted them together tug on the wires to make sure you have a good connection. If one of them pulls out you know you do not have a good connection and just start over.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: