New generator head - need to wire outlets

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Old 03-03-08, 07:10 PM
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New generator head - need to wire outlets

Hello,

I have questions about wiring a generator head.
I purchased a new 10kw generator (from ebay). When it arrived, it was new, but it was manufactured in 1999. It also did not come with any wiring instructions. (and did not have any outlets wired to it) I tried to contact the seller, but I did not get any response. I also googled the brand and cannot find anything. (it is a Genetec brand)

Anyway, the generator has 6 wires coming out of it. 4 black
wires, numbered 1 to 4, and 2 red wires with a smaller guage, numbered 5 & 6.
The label on the generator says that it is a 110/220 single
phase generator that is self exciting. I'm guessing that 2 of the black are the neutral and hot for 110 and the other two are the same. I put an ohm meter on the blacks and found which ones are pairs.

My guess for the red is perhaps 12vdc output for charging a
battery, or some sort of excitation. (although it is supposed to be self-exciting).

I've hooked the generator to an engine and fired it up to a
little less than 3600 rpm. I'm not getting any voltage on any of the wires.
(I tried almost every combination that I could think of)
Finally, here are my questions:

-could i be rotating the generator in the wrong direction.
(most generator heads that I've seen don't care) It would be really painful to reverse the direction.

-I understand that generators can loose there magnetism from sitting, so I tried to excite it with a hand drill. (I found some directions online) -this didn't work. I also found some instructions to excite the generator by hooking it up to 110vac with three light bulbs in series. This actually tripped the AC circuit breaking in my garage and didn't work. I did find some directions on a previous post in these forums that use a 12vdc battery. I can try this, but how do I figure out the polarity of the wiring? Perhaps having the polarity reversed is the reason I tripped a breaker?!?

Thanks in advance,

Andrew
 
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  #2  
Old 03-04-08, 08:34 AM
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First of all, I think you need to dispute your purchase with eBay. Unless, it was stated in the auction or pictures as, "as-in" condition. If so, Then you are screwed.
 
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Old 03-04-08, 10:24 AM
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I agree that you should look closely at the E-bay listing to see if you were either mislead or did not pay attention to the details.
For sure do not apply any more voltage to the wires until you know how it is supposed to be connected.
I have a 5kw Coleman generator that is self excited but there is a small circuit board within the generator housing.

Is it similar to this one?

Is the expired listing still available?
 
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Old 03-06-08, 11:26 AM
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This is the auction that it came from:

110200891301

It really doesn't have any details about the condition.

Is there a time limit on disputes? I've had this thing since the b eginning of December, just haven't had time to mess with it.
 
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Old 03-06-08, 11:32 AM
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Can you give a full link? I have had a fare share in eBay transactions, I'll look over it for you. I'm not really sure about a time limit. If you look through eBay's help articles about disputes, it should give you some idea on a time-line.
 
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Old 03-06-08, 12:07 PM
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Here is a link to the auction.

The dispute time limit for Paypal if you paid that way is 45 days.
You would have to claim that the item is significantly not as described but I doubt whether that applies to the description of the item:

-Model: GP2215D
-Add a pully and power source to create your own electric!
10kW Single Phase 3600RPM 120/240v [email protected]
-Unit comes with capacitor 5% regulation
I find it hard to believe that a seller with a 99% positive feedback would not respond.
But, even if he does the description does say in so many words that it is not ready to go.


I see that you have not yet sent in a report on your purchase and if he continues to ignore you a negative report may be justifiable.
 
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Old 03-06-08, 12:12 PM
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Old 03-06-08, 12:17 PM
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If i can't get anything from the seller, does anyone have suggestions for getting this thing working?

My next try is going to be using the same 110VAC to try to re-magnetize the thing. this time I'm going to switch polarity from the last time. Maybe I had the neutral and hot backwards, this may be why the circuit breaker tripped?!?
 
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Old 03-06-08, 01:00 PM
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Without being disrespectful you are not paying attention to the advice you have been given so far.

Your chances that someone here has a wiring diagram or can tell you for sure how to connect it are slim to zero.
Your best chance of making it work is with the seller.
As you have not yet given your feedback on your purchase you still have some power.

You really need to develop a basic understanding of electricity as 110 vots ac does not have polarity. It doesn't matter electrically which way you hook single phase a/c up.
The circuit breaker tripped because you have connected a dead short which hopefully hasn't damaged it already.

Again, do not apply any power to the leads as you are likely going to burn it out or hurt yourself.
It probably excites with 12 volts DC but who knows what this thing originally came from.
 
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Old 03-06-08, 02:04 PM
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There is a Genetec company but they make security related products. I'm wondering if this isn't a part taken off some piece of equipment they sell/sold that had a self contained power supply for remote use. The equipment it was pulled from might of incorporated the missing parts that are needed to get it working. If so since this wasn't intended as a stand-alone generator but simply as part of a piece of monitoring equipment getting it working is unlikely.
 
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Old 03-06-08, 03:42 PM
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If all else fails, Harbor Frieght sells the same idea:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45416

You apply 3600 rpms to it, electricity comes out. Too bad, this looks like a fun project. And I disagree with what some are saying about you lacking knowledge of electricity. You got very far on this, probably farther than I would have gotten.

Are you sure this isn't made by Generac ? Maybe call them up, see if you can get some support that way. Generac has a reputation that their generators are useless without the corresponding Generac transfer switch. This may be the refection of why you have so many different wires coming out.

But you take a chance when you buy a specific part like this and not a whole generator. And either it was broke or you broke it.
 
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Old 03-07-08, 09:47 AM
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Hey Fubar411, that is the exact generator head that I was originally going to purchase. But when I saw this head on ebay for a couple hundred less, I couldn't resist!! (I guess the old saying is still true "you get what you pay for"!!)

Ray2047, after lots of googling, I had found the original Genetec company. (from Madison, WI) It was an import company. I tried to call the phone number that was listed, but it was disconnected. It is possible that I am missing some pieces to get this thing working, but I will still try. It's very rewarding to get projects like these working.


GregH, I apologize if it seems like I'm not paying attention to peoples advice!!

I've tried to contact the ebay seller twice previously, and did it a third time after the recommendation below.

I have a feeling that the ebay seller knows nothing about generator heads and has no paperwork on the units. That may be why I've not got any response. I didn't want to put in a negative response to the seller because I received the item quickly and it was as described.

I have a basic understanding of electricity, and know generally how electric motors and generators work, but don't have much experience messing with generators.

As for the comment that "It doesn't matter electrically which way you hook single phase a/c up.", I would have to disagree . Some devices are very specific about having the hot and neutral wires in the right spot. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word "polarity" when refering to AC power.

As for having a dead short, I checked the coils with an ohm-meter before applying power to it. There was some resistance there, that is how I determined which pair of wires were being used for a single coil.

Maybe I have this thing over-simplified in my brain, but I'm thinking that there should be two coils inside the unit. Each set of coils produces 110 VAC as the rotor spins. Both 110vac lines should be in phase with each other so that when combined, will produce 220VAC.

I have done a bit of research on wiring generators, and a common theme is that a generator needs some residual magnetism in the head to produce electricity, if the generator is not used for a long period of time, this magnetism is lost. That is my current goal, if this doesn't work, I will look into something different.

thanks

Andrew
 
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Old 03-07-08, 02:48 PM
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those type of generators like what you got there they are little tricky to get it working right and if you got the model and seral number maybe i can able snag some info.

otherwise with the 3600 rpm single phase generator head are not too bad to hook up but you really have to watch the connection they are senstive to the way the coil goes if you manged get one of the set backward for some reason it will not able run it.

other wise you can bring it to the motor shop they can able tell by testing the coil to see which way it should be.

Warning this is a example only

typically a example here [ not a actaual way unless c'est verified by manufacter specs ]

C1A - C1B [ coil one lead a and b ]

C2A- C2B [ coil two lead a and b ]

each coil are at 120 volts to get full power at 120 volts both are connected in parallel other wise with 120/240 volt connection which it is more common it will be just like convetal power co transformer connection C1A will be hot leg while C1B and C2A is a center tap while C2B is hot leg being C1B and C2A is netral connection so you can get 120 volts from either coil to order get 240 volts you get both hots from C1A and C2B .

as i describing this is a example only so please refere to the manufacter connection digaragm or concat the manufacter for support or motor/ generator shop for more details.
 
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Old 03-09-08, 07:43 AM
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hey french277V,

The brand is Genetec. The model number is GP2215D. The serial number is 990128.

The specs are as follows:

10kw, 120/240 VAC single phase 60 Hz at 3600 rpm.
Power Factor: 1.0
The rise is 105/130 (not sure what this means).
Amb degrees C: -20 to +40.

I hadn't thought about bringing it to a motor shop, but that might be a good option!

Any help would be appreciated!!!

Merci beaucoup!!

Andrew
 
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Old 03-10-08, 12:24 AM
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I did look high and low and i just cant come up who made this one and i really suggest go to the motor shop this is my safest bet to do this.

Merci, Marc
 
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Old 03-28-08, 01:20 PM
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Just a follow up post in case someone else has similiar problems...

I did finally find some wiring diagrams for the unit. (long story)

The 4 black wires are the for the two main windings, 1&2 are a pair for 110vac, and 3&4 are another pair for 110vac. (2&3 are neutral) the two red wires need to have a capacitor across them. The drawings recommend a 90MF cap, but I'll be using a 70 MF which should work.

I've still have not got any electricity out of the thing, but my next step is to field flash the windings.

I'll post an update if that works....
 
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Old 05-16-08, 12:39 AM
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generator head

Hey amotomura

I just seen your post and I thought of bying the same type of generator head, but what turned me off was the fact that it is not a constant run generator head that you could run 7/24 52 weeks.As far as I know, you would get only a few hundred hours out of it per internet research.

But back to your problem. Some generator heads will not put any power out by just hooking up a voltmeter. You may have to put a actually load, like a light bulb, to it. This is a brush less generator head and I believe this is one of the cases. The load should complete the circuit and will exite the windings inside the the generator. Some generators as well motors do not even use a magnet,the use the rest magnatismus in the metal to exite the windings which get stronger with rpm and load.
I guess that you used a voltmeter to check the voltage, the inturnal resistance of a voltmeter is to high to count as a actually load.
most likly you triped the breaker because you powerd up one set of the black wires, while the other set touched the end of the wires or metal case (the 2 windings will act like a transformer especialy with ac aplied to it). Exturnal AC current will kill magnetismus in metal by the way.I aggree with other folks here, do not apply 110volt to the genertor that will burn it up like a motor that does not turn.
I hope that aplying a actual load will solve your problem.
good luck.
.......johann.....
 
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Old 05-27-08, 08:40 PM
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I bought one of the 8k heads (same kind probably same guy)and I have not tried it yet but I have a spec sheet on it. I dont know if you have this or have got it to work yet. I bought a mecca alt head with same cap regulation and it worked. I made a small gen from a little kubota 2cyl diesel engine and had another engine I was going to hook to this head. I would be interested if you got it to work.
 
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