60 amp subpanel questions

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Old 04-04-08, 05:19 PM
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60 amp subpanel questions

I'm looking at running a 60 amp service out to my shop (currently just has a 12/3 pulled through the conduit powering the lights and my tablesaw). Just wanted to check a couple of things. I'm looking at using #6 copper or #4 aluminum for my two hots and my neutral, then #8 stranded for my ground. My subpanel will have a main breaker; here's where I get fuzzy: do I wire my ground into my main panel or do I need to add a grounding rod for my shop? My run is between 40 and 50 feet. Thanks for all the help you give us!!
 
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Old 04-04-08, 05:48 PM
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If your shop is a separate building you need to do both. The number 8 equipment ground from the service panel neutral/ground to the sub panel equipment ground bus AND a number 6 grounding electrode conductor from the sub panel equipment ground bus to an approved ground rod.

If the shop is part of the same building where the service panel is you do not need the ground rod or grounding electrode conductor.
 
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Old 04-05-08, 06:58 PM
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Just some extra words on top of furd's comments, since people have been confused about it. The "equipment ground" (EGC) is pretty much always required to run along side the hots and neutrals. The "grounding electrode conductor" (GEC) is between the panel where power enters a building and the earth, typically ending at one or more grounding rods, but sometimes other methods are used. Only one panel per building needs a GEC.

Allow me to save Marc the trouble: do NOT connect the neutral and ground together at the subpanel, even for a separate building. The neutral and ground are ONLY tied together at the service entrance.

FYI, I just did a subpanel like this recently and it was actually pretty fun, so enjoy!

Good luck!

-- Rich
 
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Old 04-05-08, 10:48 PM
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Thanks for the info. I've actually decided to upgrade that to a 100 amp panel; do I just use #2 Al and #6 stranded? Glad to know that I need both a ground rod and a ground to run to the main panel. I didn't think that was the case so that was great info for me. Also, I have a 1 1/2 inch conduit that I put in two years ago expecting I would do this someday (I was pouring concrete over where it needed to go). There are two 90 degree elbows with pull points at either end; is that going to be terribly difficult to pull?

Thanks!!
 
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Old 04-06-08, 03:42 AM
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You should not have much issue pull the wires in 1.5 inch conduit but make sure you get the wire lube for it [ dont use WD-40 or dish soap or grease at all ] many hardware store and big box store do stock this item it will be little messy when you pull the wire along the way so before you start that see if you can find a mouse or something simuair to that size and do the dry run first to make sure the conduit is not damaged or partally clogged [ i did see it happend before and it is no fun to repair them when they get partal clogged with unknowen items get in the conduit]

#2 alum is fine but a catch here [ kinda common goof if not carefull] if your area in 2005 or earlier code #2 AL can be used with 100 amp breaker but however if you fall on 2008 code that will change a bit #2 alum is good for 90 amp breaker.

Thanks Rich for a quick lecture for subfeed wires

and there is other change along the way of useing GFCI if you are on 2005 the lighting circuits dont need to be on GFCI'ed but if you are on 2008 then everything have to be GFCI'ed expcet the 240 volt equiment [ Ex 240v tablesaw or 240 v air compressor ]they still don't need the GFCI.


Merci,Marc

P.S. just state your location due the code change for both NEC and CEC [ Candna electrical code]
 
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Old 04-18-08, 08:15 PM
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unbonded neutral

Let me make sure I'm right on this. I got a 100 amp panel from a friend that we found stored in the house he just moved into. I thought, "great, that'll save me a hundred bucks or so." Now that I check it, I realize that the neutral is bonded to the ground and cannot be separated. The ground and the hot bus bars are all aluminum within the panel (it's a 20+ year old square d panel) and while I was checking that I realized that the neutral is connected to the body of the box. So I can't use it, can I? I'm sure that's the case, but wanted to make sure. Also, isn't Al a bad choice of material on the conducting parts of the box? The neutral bars are also painted steel, the same as the whole box. Is this an acceptable practice? seems like a bad idea to me...
 
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Old 04-19-08, 12:17 AM
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Sjacobso.,,

Run the Sqd model number i can able tell if that is a tinned busbar or real alum bussbar i been working with SqD stuff for pretty long time and few of our readers here is electrician as well. they can pin point it as well.

many panel box they useally can get seprated ground bussbar kit they are typically few bucks depending on what model and size itself.

the netural and ground must be sepreated at subfeed locations but however if this box is used as main breaker box the netural and ground wires can use together however this is the only place it will landed together [ wise pratice is use netrual wire at each netual bussbar hole and grounds can bundle up many as two or three depending on the manufacter and size of wire.

most breaker box do have bonding screw or jumper there if used for main breaker box location that fine but for subfeed throw that away.

Merci,Marc
 
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Old 04-19-08, 09:52 AM
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Square D panel

Ok, here's all the numbers I found: Cat No Q020M, Series L1, Issue # A4780.

Currently the neutral just lays directly against the box, which I assume has to be grounded. Thanks for your continued help! I can post pictures, if that would help.
 
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