2 Switches, Ceiling Fan, & A Split-Circuit Outlet

Reply

  #1  
Old 05-11-08, 10:42 AM
mattphipps68's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Exclamation 2 Switches, Ceiling Fan, & A Split-Circuit Outlet

Hi Everyone-

I'm in a bit of a pickle. I have to replace 2 single-pole switches (in one box), and a split-circuit outlet across the room. One switch controls my cieling fan, the other is dedicated to the split outlet (which is in the middle of a circuit of normal outlets).

If everything was INTACT when I was asked to do the work it would have been a piece of cake, but now I'm faced with trying to figure out how to wire this mess. Neither of the switches are wired and the dead outlet has been REMOVED from the wall due to a buddy "helpfully" just chopping the wires and tossing the dead switches and outlet in the trash (at least he didnt pull the wires out of the wall - I'd have beat him senseless).

How the heck am I supposed to put it all back? I have detailed instructions on how to connect two switches in a double box to a series of lights and additional charts on how to wire a split outlet to a switch, but neither cover the mess that I'm in.

Any sugestions would be helpful.

Thanks.

P.S. If you could also send your suggestions in a private message that would be a great help. M.
 

Last edited by mattphipps68; 05-11-08 at 11:07 AM. Reason: additional info
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 05-11-08, 11:09 AM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,967
Received 6 Votes on 6 Posts
I guess, first, you will need to know the breaker that controls the mess, determine which wires are energized and which ones are switch loops. Do you have a good volt/ohm/millammeter?
 
  #3  
Old 05-11-08, 11:14 AM
mattphipps68's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Fortunately the switches and outlet are all on the same circuit and I can cut the power easily - flip one breaker and its dead.
 
  #4  
Old 05-11-08, 11:41 AM
mattphipps68's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by chandler View Post
I guess, first, you will need to know the breaker that controls the mess, determine which wires are energized and which ones are switch loops. Do you have a good volt/ohm/millammeter?
I'm a novice in all of this so I had to look up what a switch loop is. Given the state of my switch box and outlet I'm presuming the only way to determine where the loops are is to crawl up in the attic and take a peek?
 
  #5  
Old 05-11-08, 11:43 AM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,967
Received 6 Votes on 6 Posts
In the meantime, give us the color and number of wires in the receptacle box (how many cables), and in the switch box. We know you will have grounding wires, so you don't have to enumerate them, just the current carrying wires.
 
  #6  
Old 05-11-08, 12:23 PM
mattphipps68's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Ok - here goes:

In the switch box there are 1 white, and 1 black coming from the bottom knockout and 2 white, 2 black, and 2 red going out the top. The white wires are all wire-nutted together.

In the split-outlet box there are only the standard black and white incoming and outgooing wires.

With a bit of snooping I found the end-of-run box which has 3 black all wire-nutted together, 3 white, and 1 red.
 
  #7  
Old 05-11-08, 01:37 PM
J
Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: welland ontario
Posts: 7,557
Received 247 Votes on 217 Posts
With only black and white in the receptacle box it can't be split. It has to be all on or all switched.
Only the box with the red wire can half switched.
Need more info. Can you determine which wire is hot wire when the power comes on? Did the fan have two switches? one for fan and one for light?
 
  #8  
Old 05-12-08, 06:27 AM
mattphipps68's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Ok, I understand about the red wires in the end of run box being for a split circuit and I can go ahead and re-connect the "presumed" split box (with only the 2 black and 2 white leads) with no trouble.

No - the fan only has one switch for both the fan and lights - the second switch is solely for the split circuit socket which, as I now understand it, is at the end of the circuit run.

The house is my fathers and he is the original owner - I'm presuming that the black wires are the hot leads as is typical in general wiring. Where there are neutrals retasked as hot is impossible to determine as there are no black marks on any of the white wires that I saw (if the marks were present at one point that segment probably got hacked off and tossed out when my buddy tried to "help")
 

Last edited by mattphipps68; 05-12-08 at 06:56 AM.
  #9  
Old 05-12-08, 08:38 AM
J
Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: welland ontario
Posts: 7,557
Received 247 Votes on 217 Posts
If I had to GUESS, this is how I would conenct it.
The two wire b&w cable is probably the power coming in.
One of the BRW cables goes to the fan with an unused wire for the light switching.
One of the BRW cables goes to the split receptacle.

If this is true connect all the whites together.
Connect the black from the B&W cable to two pigtails and the black to the receptacle.
Connect one pigtail to each switch. Connect the red from the two cables to the other terminal on the swithces.
At the split receptacle cut the tab off on the gold screw side.
Connect the black and red one to each of the gold screws.
Connect the white to the silver screws.
 
  #10  
Old 05-13-08, 01:10 AM
mattphipps68's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Ok - now if I understand you correctly, the diagrams posted here: http://members.cox.net/mattphipps68/ show everything connected as you told me, correct?

I really appreciate all the help you've given me
 
  #11  
Old 05-13-08, 05:30 AM
J
Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: welland ontario
Posts: 7,557
Received 247 Votes on 217 Posts
Look good to me.
 
  #12  
Old 05-13-08, 12:15 PM
mattphipps68's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Question PARTIAL Success...

Well there was a temporary bit of success. The fan spun and the light came on when I used the pull chain but when I went to test the socket nothing happened.

I went back to the fan/light and it wouldnt come back on either.

I checked the circuit breaker and it hadn't tripped and the sockets wired earlier in the circuit still function.

I followed the diagrams really carefully yet I'm wondering if there is something I missed?
 
  #13  
Old 05-13-08, 03:15 PM
mattphipps68's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Talking WOOHOO!! I now have my ceiling fan and light socket back!!

Thanks everyone for all the help!! My previuos post was a false alarm - I had an open hot that I had to tighten up (it seems I DID miss something) and everything is now as it should be.

Thank you all so much.

M.
 
Reply
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: