old work wall box for light

Reply

  #1  
Old 08-26-08, 03:32 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sunnyvale, California, USA
Posts: 42
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
old work wall box for light

I'm trying to install some new wall sconces in my bathroom - there were no wall lights before. They aren't super heavy.

What are my options for "old work" boxes?

http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(4c...px?SKU=3230158 - the screw holes don't line up with my light, so I won't be able to screw the light fixture on to this box. Is there some standard for hole spacings that this guy doesn't respect??

The screw holes on receptacle/switch boxes aren't spaced right, either.

http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(4c...aspx?SKU=32712 - The flange on here is just *slightly* too large. I could file it down...

The "Smart Box" might work if only there was a stud where I want the light.

Is there a way to use one of those plain metal octagon boxes in an "old work" fashion? Is it ok to use those Madison "hold it" clips on the octagon boxes? Are there metal boxes for light fixtures that have "old work" ears?

thanks!
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 08-26-08, 03:38 PM
Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Dry Side of Washington State
Posts: 738
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
You'll have to buy a mounting bracket. Said bracket screws into the threaded holes in the outlet box. There are 4 threaded holes, two on each side, in the mounting bracket and the scone will screw into two of those holes.

Take a trip to the local hardware store and ask for the mounting bracket.
 
  #3  
Old 08-26-08, 03:41 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sunnyvale, California, USA
Posts: 42
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by thinman View Post
You'll have to buy a mounting bracket. Said bracket screws into the threaded holes in the outlet box. There are 4 threaded holes, two on each side, in the mounting bracket and the scone will screw into two of those holes.

Take a trip to the local hardware store and ask for the mounting bracket.
thinman - thanks!

Is this mounting bracket something I can install without removing more drywall?? If so I am very intrigued.

-Erik
 
  #4  
Old 08-26-08, 03:55 PM
Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Dry Side of Washington State
Posts: 738
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
You'll still have to install the work box.

Wish I could find a picture of the mounting bracket. It's actually a two piece setup with a center pivot point that swivels into a cross shape. The bottom part mounts to the work box. The top piece can be rotated so its mounting holes will lineup with the mounting holes in the scone.

Are there any Big Box stores in your area?
 
  #5  
Old 08-26-08, 04:04 PM
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Near Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 10,944
Received 42 Votes on 40 Posts


If you'll notice there is a brass colored bracket in the center of the box in this picture which you use to actually mount the fixture. The bracket is somewhat "X" shaped which rotates around the middle. One of the straps has holes which match the box, the other strap has holes which match the fixture. The sconces should come with the bracket -- it is considered part of the fixture.
 
  #6  
Old 08-26-08, 04:06 PM
Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Dry Side of Washington State
Posts: 738
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Good job, ibpooks
 
  #7  
Old 08-26-08, 04:23 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sunnyvale, California, USA
Posts: 42
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks for the notes - but I don't think this solves my problem. First, I *think* I've checked out that blue old work box in ipbooks' picture, and the flange on it is too big - it pokes out the side of the sconce just a speck. I'm about to just install it and use caulk or something to cover it up if I can't figure this out.

Second, the light does come with a "bracket" of sorts, but it is a square with various holes on it that screws can go through to secure it to the jbox. If I used the bracket from this picture then my light would be like a half inch or something away from the wall?

Let me put it this way - if I had one of those octagon boxes already secured in there so that the edge of it was flush with the drywall, then I would be all set - the screws on those would fit perfectly in my sconce's bracket.
 
  #8  
Old 08-26-08, 04:55 PM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 14,944
Received 30 Votes on 26 Posts
You could just file down part of the lip on the blue old work box until the sconce canopy fit over top. Or you could try to find one of these . You may need to get these from an electrical supply house. Arlington Industries makes them.
http://aifittings.com/whnew95.htm
 
  #9  
Old 08-26-08, 05:04 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sunnyvale, California, USA
Posts: 42
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by pcboss View Post
You could just file down part of the lip on the blue old work box until the sconce canopy fit over top.
Is this legal? I'm just about to do this, but i thought we weren't supposed to modify boxes?

Originally Posted by pcboss View Post
Or you could try to find one of these . You may need to get these from an electrical supply house. Arlington Industries makes them.
http://aifittings.com/whnew95.htm
The problem here is that if the screw holes fit a duplex receptacle or light switch then they aren't going to fit on my light. I'm not sure what all the standard patterns are for screw holes, but this appears to be the "wrong" one.
 
  #10  
Old 08-26-08, 06:38 PM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 14,944
Received 30 Votes on 26 Posts
I know people who have had the flange be too wide for the fixture and field modified it . I don't think that this would really matter as the integrity of the wiring compartment would still be intact.

Most mounting brackets have various slotted holes to allow mounting to a variety of box shapes.

The bracket shown in Bens post typically is covered by the canopy bulge.
 
  #11  
Old 08-26-08, 11:23 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
You could also use a fan bracket. Yes, over kill structurally and much more expensive but no lip. You would just install between the studs and tighten.
 
  #12  
Old 08-27-08, 11:41 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sunnyvale, California, USA
Posts: 42
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
You could also use a fan bracket. Yes, over kill structurally and much more expensive but no lip. You would just install between the studs and tighten.
Is there something like this that you can install without removing more than the 3 or 4 inch circle of drywall?

thanks everyone for your help!

-erik
 
  #13  
Old 08-27-08, 11:55 AM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
Originally Posted by ErikCHaugen View Post
Is there something like this that you can install without removing more than the 3 or 4 inch circle of drywall?
That is how they work. They are installed through a hole the size of the box. No removing of extra Sheetrock needed.

Just to be clear I am talking about a ceiling fan retrofit box and brace. You just insert the brace through the hole and turn a nut to expand against the joists, or in this case studs. Then tighten with a wrench. The box is then inserted and fastened to it.
 
  #14  
Old 08-27-08, 02:43 PM
Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Dry Side of Washington State
Posts: 738
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I take it you can't use the light fixture bracket. You need a box that will allow the sconce to fasten directly to it?

Maybe this will work:

http://images.grainger.com/images/products/6XC84.JPG
 
  #15  
Old 08-27-08, 03:07 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sunnyvale, California, USA
Posts: 42
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by thinman View Post
I take it you can't use the light fixture bracket. You need a box that will allow the sconce to fasten directly to it?
Yeah, I don't think an extra bracket would work. My sconce comes with a bracket, and I can't insert any more space between the jbox and this sconce bracket. One box I linked to in my original post seems like it would work swimmingly, except the pattern of holes for screws does not line up with my sconce bracket's pattern of screw holes.

Originally Posted by thinman View Post
Yeah, that looks perfect. It's essentially the same as the octagon boxes I've mentioned. The question is how do I affix that to my wall without removing all the drywall?


ray2047 - I'll see if I can find one of those fan brackets and if the screw holes line up. Thanks! If not, then I guess I'll file off the edges of that other box.

thanks,
Erik
 
  #16  
Old 08-27-08, 03:27 PM
Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Dry Side of Washington State
Posts: 738
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ErikCHaugen View Post
Yeah, that looks perfect. It's essentially the same as the octagon boxes I've mentioned. The question is how do I affix that to my wall without removing all the drywall?
Mount the box on the wall surface via a stud or use toggle bolts. If that won't work place the box on a stud. Draw an outline around the box. Use a drill and hole saw to cut the sheetrock slightly larger than the diameter of the box.
 
  #17  
Old 08-27-08, 03:54 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sunnyvale, California, USA
Posts: 42
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by thinman View Post
Mount the box on the wall surface via a stud or use toggle bolts. If that won't work place the box on a stud. Draw an outline around the box. Use a drill and hole saw to cut the sheetrock slightly larger than the diameter of the box.
Ah - I see, so with this guy I can put it right over the stud, since the box is so thin. That might work.

Toggle bolts are intriguing - I can't imagine where exactly they would go, but I haven't examined the entire range of available toggle bolts.

Would these be preferable to those madison hangers and an octagonal box? http://images.hardwareandtools.com/P/u243436.jpg I'm not sure if these hangers are approved for other kinds of boxes...

thanks,
Erik
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: