300v rated cable VS 600v...the real diff?

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Old 08-27-08, 02:35 AM
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300v rated cable VS 600v...the real diff?

Hello and thx for your time...

Out at the yard, we currently run a few 1000W lights. The cables are 14/3 with a 600v in the rating(15ft lamp cord length)...but because I need to double the length of the lamp cords, I picked up some 12/3 Extension cords from Costco intending to cut them up as needed. $40 for 100'.
But I noticed they are rated 300v.
Do I need the 600v stuff?

Thx again!
 
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Old 08-27-08, 05:08 AM
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Welcome to the forums! Using extension cords for permanent lighting is not allowed. You should utilize underground feeder cable, or conduit filled with THHN in the proper size for the load.
 
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Old 08-27-08, 02:12 PM
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Thx for the reply.
These would technically be more like a mobile lighting tower than permanent fixtures. But we don't move them (except now...I need them to move over 15ft, but they must stay plugged in where they are)
I don't know the legalities of it, but they've been running for about 3yrs. Bought them used. I think they were originally wired up as "grow" lights...6ft power cord, CSA metal box that the ballasts are in, 15ft lamp cord. All I did was put the socket/bulbs into outdoor style reflectors and hang them up a pole.

I just don't know how to calculate if this 12g 300v cable could safely replace the 14g 600v...all I know is that 120v is coming from the plug and 1000w is running on the other end...
 
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Old 08-27-08, 02:33 PM
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How many you have them on this circuit and what voltage it is allready hook up now ??

1000 watter HID luminaire do draw a bit of current.

The 12 gauge cable will work as long you are under 16 amp { contunius ( 3 + hours running time )}


Let us know how it set up then we will go from there in safe way.

Merci,Marc
 
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Old 08-27-08, 03:09 PM
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The 300V cord is okay as your circuit is only 120V. This is called "service junior" cord and it is okay for residential use.
 
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Old 08-27-08, 04:03 PM
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Each light(3) has it's own lamp cord/ballast/plug...which are plugged individually into a small fused "sub panel"(if that's the right term) that came with the light kits...the sub panel is "hard wired" to the main service of the shop on it's own breaker.
Not sure of that breaker size or if the lights are running 120 or 240...but I can find out of course.

So would that be the difference in use of 300 and 600v? Whether they are running at 120 or 240?

Thx again for the assistance.
 
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Old 08-27-08, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by loopie View Post
So would that be the difference in use of 300 and 600v? Whether they are running at 120 or 240?

Thx again for the assistance.
If you exceed 300volts, you should use the 600volt cord. The high voltage demands more insulation thickness, which the 600 volt gives you. One other point of interest, is that marine wiring, even 12 volt wiring, typically uses 600 v rated wire, since the thicker insulation gives it more margin in wet, corrosive conditions.
 
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Old 08-27-08, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by loopie View Post

So would that be the difference in use of 300 and 600v? Whether they are running at 120 or 240?

T.
the 300 and 600 are the max voltage the insulation is rated for. Nothing more, nothing less and is concerning the voltage carried by any one conductor (voltage to ground, not line to line).

Unless the cord has a actual material designation, it is not legal to use extension cords cut up as lamp whips.

The cord used, since this is outdoors, must also have a "W" in the deignation meaning it is designed to be used in wet applications.

additionally, if the receptacles are outside, they must be covered by an "in-use" cover.
 
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Old 08-27-08, 08:40 PM
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Hi Loopie,
Your first post said "yard" and the latest says "shop". Are the lights used outdoors or indoors?
 
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Old 08-27-08, 08:43 PM
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http://www.primewirecable.com/outdoor.aspx?CatSubID=22
Item EC500835...3rd from the bottom.
12/3 SJTW , 15amp, 1875watt
 
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Old 08-27-08, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick Johnston View Post
Hi Loopie,
Your first post said "yard" and the latest says "shop". Are the lights used outdoors or indoors?
The ballasts and sub panel are inside...the bulbs and reflector housings are just outside the open end of the shop(no actual door there) Quonset hut style that is framed in a bit, but not closed on that end. There is a "drip loop" in the cords before they reach the ballast boxes.
The wattage is total overkill by most standards...lol...but they were practically free and now that I'm used to them, the extra light is nice. In the winter, I use them up to 6hrs per evening 3-4x a week.
Anyways...I need 2 of these lights to move over 15 more feet to shine down the backside of the shop and I vaguely recalled reading one time that these ballasts call for a 14g at 15ft and 12g wire at 25ft.
 
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Old 08-27-08, 09:41 PM
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Ahh if I get your drift here you have remote ballast so the ballast are in the shop and the luminaire itself is outside right ?

If so that can change a bit with figures they can able string a bit of distance before voltage drop willbe a issue.

Keep in your mind the standard Metal Halide something like your 1000 W MH's with #12 you can go far as 50~75 feet before the voltage drop will be a issue with it

But if it have pulse start Metal Halides then all bets is off.

Oh yeah one more thing with remote ballast units make sure you use the 600v rated cords due the open voltage circuit on 1000 W MH { the typical open circuit is about 350 v range }

Merci,Marc
 
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Old 08-27-08, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by french277V View Post
Ahh if I get your drift here you have remote ballast so the ballast are in the shop and the luminaire itself is outside right ?


Oh yeah one more thing with remote ballast units make sure you use the 600v rated cords due the open voltage circuit on 1000 W MH { the typical open circuit is about 350 v range }

Merci,Marc
Yes...bulbs are outside, 15ft away from the ballast.
All 3 are 1000watters...one MH and 2 HPS.
So you're saying they run OVER 300v in the lamp cord? In which case, I simply should/must use 600v cable?
Not the end of the world or anything...was just tryin' to save a couple bucks. This 12/3 300v is .40/ft via Costco...12/3 600v at the typical store is about $2/ft.
 
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Old 08-28-08, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by loopie View Post
Yes...bulbs are outside, 15ft away from the ballast.
All 3 are 1000watters...one MH and 2 HPS.
So you're saying they run OVER 300v in the lamp cord? In which case, I simply should/must use 600v cable?
Not the end of the world or anything...was just tryin' to save a couple bucks. This 12/3 300v is .40/ft via Costco...12/3 600v at the typical store is about $2/ft.

Becarefull with the HPS you may run into the issue is the ingitor { starter } you may want to check to what type of starter { if you can read the model number that willbe great myself or other electrician here can depcher the model number }

The reason why I want to warn ya with the HPS they have much higher open circuit voltage and I just double checked and here the run down

1000 HPS open circuit voltage typically 435 volts

The ingitor { starter } it varies a bit depending if that is a standard starter or long range starter [ it can be either at 2 , 15 , 50 or 100 feet depending on what model the ingitor itself ]


1000 W Metal Halide { probe start }

typical open circuit voltage is 415

there is no limit on distance but sized the wire for voltage drop that it.

But if that is pulse start verison the bet is off but the open circuit voltage is pretty simauir to probestart verison

Now you know why the manufacter speced the 600 volt cord in first place.

For any reason to extend it you have to use the 600 volt not the 300 v rated cords the 300 volt cord will not handle the voltage at all.

Merci,Marc
 
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Old 08-28-08, 12:34 AM
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Sold. 600v it will be. (*digs into wallet for 4x more money*)
Thx Frenchie I tried briefly to google some specs and such and find out about the 300/600v dilemma I was having...but couldn't narrow it down. You sound like you SPECIFICALLY know what my application is calling for and knew what to look up. I'll certainly take your word for it.

Thx again to all...I'll run 600v cable.
 
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Old 08-28-08, 08:56 AM
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When you're shopping for cable, avoid any that have "J" in the designation such as your SJTW. It stands for "junior" and means that the cable is rated for only 300V. Any "S" type cord without a "J" is good for 600V.

Also because this is in a shop area, you might want to get one with "O" in the code. This means oil and gasoline resistant. The W is for resistance to weather/rain, and if you encounter an "A" that is for atmosphere (extreme hot and cold temperature -50F I think) resistant.

You should be able to buy the exact type you need by the foot or spool from an electrical supply house. They will stock or order it for you so you don't have to hunt for extension cords to chop up.
 
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