wiring kitchen island

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Old 09-24-08, 06:45 AM
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wiring kitchen island

we bought a house with stained/painted concrete floors, and a nice island in the kitchen, but with no power..

we intend to tile the floor and would like to run power to the island before doing that.. obviously we would have to cut a channel for conduit in the concrete..

is there a documented proper way to do this? metal conduit, with a metal trench cover? the exposed trench will be about 3 ft long.

Sam
 
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Old 09-24-08, 09:15 AM
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I"ll let the experts give the specifics on materials but I will note I saw one case where the alkalinity of the concrete ate through EMT and the conductors shorted out. The concrete floor had to be jack-hammered to fix. If it were me I'd use rigid conduit and be sure there was an accessible pull box on both ends so the conductors could be replaced if needed.
 
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Old 09-24-08, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
I"ll let the experts give the specifics on materials but I will note I saw one case where the alkalinity of the concrete ate through EMT and the conductors shorted out. The concrete floor had to be jack-hammered to fix. If it were me I'd use rigid conduit and be sure there was an accessible pull box on both ends so the conductors could be replaced if needed.
agreed on the ability to replace the conductors.. (why I said conduit).

Sam
 
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Old 09-24-08, 11:04 AM
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I'm waiting to hear the answer on this one as I have almost the same situation. In this kitchen the house was added onto so half the kitchen is on the slab and the other half over about a 12" crawl space. The island will be on the slab part just to make things difficult, about 10" from the crawl area. I'll be doing ceramic over the whole floor. I was thinking I'd bring up the electric to a box and then run some flush mount over to the island area. Once the ceramic is down there won't be any getting back to the power coming in.
 
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Old 09-24-08, 11:53 AM
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Wouldn't PVC conduit eliminate the corrosion problem? Use a couple of sizes larger than required so plenty of room to pull.
Bring it to a box mounted on the inside of the cabinet, then do whats required to get it where you need.

Cut/break out your concrete, lay in the conduit, pour new concrete and smooth it down.

No electrician here, I'm sure they will have advice, but I think thats the basics of it. Code stuff needs to be looked at of course.
 
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Old 09-24-08, 11:59 AM
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If you are building a fixed island, just extend the conduit through the floor, and couple flex on it to the outlet box. Foe a semi portable island, you could install an appropriate in-floor box, with a junction plate or floor receptical, bother appropriately floor rated.

Thinking outside the box, you could do drop cables from the ceiling, if you care for the "Industrial" look.
 
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Old 09-24-08, 12:08 PM
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Under a slab floor, you do not need any cover. You can cut a channel in the concrete just deep enough, lay in some PVC conduit and fill the channel flush with grout/mortar/concrete to tile over. Depending on the type of concrete saw you use, you may be able to cut a V channel out of the slab without going fully through.

If all you need is a 20A small-appliance branch circuit on the island, then 1/2" PVC conduit is plenty. If you intend to have a range or cooktop on the island, then larger sized conduit will be required. The conduit needs to terminate at accessible pull boxes on both sides.
 
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Old 09-24-08, 12:19 PM
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Hey Classicsat I like the way you think...
Outlets on the ceiling with heavy duty industrial retractable extension cords...mmmmmmm

Bring a little garage into the kitchen, my 2 favorite rooms.

All I have to do is convince my wife....HAH! That'll never happen!

And glad to see I wasn't too far off in my thoughts.
 

Last edited by Gunguy45; 09-24-08 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 09-24-08, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ibpooks View Post
Under a slab floor, you do not need any cover. You can cut a channel in the concrete just deep enough, lay in some PVC conduit and fill the channel flush with grout/mortar/concrete to tile over. Depending on the type of concrete saw you use, you may be able to cut a V channel out of the slab without going fully through.

If all you need is a 20A small-appliance branch circuit on the island, then 1/2" PVC conduit is plenty. If you intend to have a range or cooktop on the island, then larger sized conduit will be required. The conduit needs to terminate at accessible pull boxes on both sides.
i was worried about the proximity of the conduit to the surface of the concrete floor (how deep the groove should be)... when someone decides to dig up my tile in the future

Sam
 
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Old 09-24-08, 02:49 PM
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You can bury it under the slab if you want to, but it is not required that you do so.
 
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Old 09-24-08, 05:18 PM
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Normally you can buryied them in the cement without much issue in Vee format if your saw can able do it other wise make a parallel path and take a chisel or air hammer { make sure you wear safety glasses those cement chunks can really fly around if not carefull }

As Ibpooks say for a single circuit a inch PVC conduit will work just fine otherwise if you do plan to install the island range like cooktop or cabent mounted oven then you will need much larger conduit something like either or 1 inch PVC conduit depending on the set up.

A quick tip if you will have large island it will be wise to run 1 inch conduit due you will always add circuit later on the time.

{ for plumming related items that is differnt story I will leave this part out for now }

Make sure you have GFCI on them the kitchen do have very specfic code related to this so you may want to review the code or ask us.

For receptale location it will depending on the layout of countertop and how much overhang it will affect.

Merci,Marc
 
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Old 09-24-08, 06:33 PM
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I highly recomend that you use a minimum of 3/4" pvc conduit
under the concrete. The ease of pushing or pulling the wire will be worth it. NEC requires that the conduit be stubbed out a min. of 6" above the floor. If you are worried about someone hitting the conduit at a later time mix up a stronger cement mix ( a bit more portland) and use Shecdule 80. Although PVC is pretty tough and a 1/2" to 3/4" layer of concrete should be plenty enought protection.

B
 
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Old 09-24-08, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by BunkyX View Post
I highly recomend that you use a minimum of 3/4" pvc conduit
under the concrete. The ease of pushing or pulling the wire will be worth it. NEC requires that the conduit be stubbed out a min. of 6" above the floor. If you are worried about someone hitting the conduit at a later time mix up a stronger cement mix ( a bit more portland) and use Shecdule 80. Although PVC is pretty tough and a 1/2" to 3/4" layer of concrete should be plenty enought protection.

B
this is a post tension cable slab.. how deep can I cut into the surface without hitting a cable? a 3/4 cover plus a 3/4 pvc puts the trench at 1.5 inches deep.

sam
 
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Old 09-24-08, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by sdetweil View Post
this is a post tension cable slab.. how deep can I cut into the surface without hitting a cable? a 3/4 cover plus a 3/4 pvc puts the trench at 1.5 inches deep.

sam
This part I useally talk to the structure engineer to make sure because there is too many variations to determed what is safe and what not.,,

Don't get me wrong on this one all I just suggest to do a safe manner and some area it will be wiser to have a cerified contractor whom specalized something like this situation.

I know some of them are not cheap but IMO it is the best way to be on safe side.

( Make sure the contractor or structure enginner have paperwork to veirfy the structure due this is a crictal item you will need to keep for your records )

Merci,Marc
 
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Old 09-25-08, 09:04 AM
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I agree with Marc on this one. Structural concrete needs to be evaluated by an engineer before any cutting or boring. Unfortunately it may severely restrict your options with the electrical, but that's a better outcome than causing structural failure in the building.

Even if you can't cut the concrete, you still may be able to get some form of wiring through the tile by building up a gradual sloped mortar bed and using a thin but tough wiring method like MI cable.
 
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