GFCI-breaker vs outlets?

Reply

  #1  
Old 09-25-08, 05:55 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 1,155
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
GFCI-breaker vs outlets?

Went to get GFCI breaker for my garge today. $57 for a 15A single pole! Wanted Thoughts on using GFCI breakers vs using a GFCI outlet and wiring it to protect the downstream outlets? Longevity issues? Convenience issues (can reset outlet at point of use) For kitchen small appliance circuit would need a double pole and I have not seen these in big box and I am sure they are very expensive. easier to just use GFCI outlets? thanks
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 09-25-08, 08:43 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Near Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 10,944
Received 42 Votes on 40 Posts
I almost exclusively use GFCI receptacles because of the much lower cost and point of use reset. There is no difference in the level of protection provided: both are class A (5mA) rated for protection of personnel.

The times where GFCI breakers are required are for fixed-in-place equipment like spas and pools or when protecting a shared-neutral circuit which can only be accomplished with a 2-pole GFCI breaker (sticker shock!).

If your kitchen circuit is shared-neutral for the whole run, then you either need a 2-pole GFCI breaker or you can install a GFCI receptacle at each location and do not hook up the LOAD side. Depending on the number of receptacles, it may be cheaper just to do that.
 
  #3  
Old 09-25-08, 09:03 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 1,155
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
thanks. you mention using outlet at each location for shared neutral (such as kitchen). Can't you split the neutral at first outlet (lets say using red and white here) then at next outlet use black and white. and from each of these use 12-2 wire connected to load to power additional outlets so that you don't need GFCI outlets except the first two? You could put these two in center and then use 12-2 going out from them. Only thing with this would be that you don't alternate circuits as would typically be done, but I don't know if that really matters.

other thing is about pool. I have in ground pool with 2 230V pumps located more that 10ft from pool. I have inquired on the forum about whether I need the pumps to be GFCI protected and was told they don't. Is it only if they are closer that they need protected or are cord and plug pumps?
 
  #4  
Old 09-25-08, 09:45 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Near Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 10,944
Received 42 Votes on 40 Posts
Originally Posted by hammerash View Post
Can't you split the neutral at first outlet (lets say using red and white here)...
Yes that is correct. Sometimes in older homes you are stuck with alternating receptacles or split by tops and bottoms in which case you're stuck with the breaker.

I have in ground pool with 2 230V pumps located more that 10ft from pool. I have inquired on the forum about whether I need the pumps to be GFCI protected and was told they don't.
Historically, hardwired in-ground pool pumps have not required GFCI protection. I do not recall if the change was in NEC2005 or NEC2008, but it is now mandatory for new installations. It is probable that the GFCI breakers were not required at the time your pumps were installed.
 
  #5  
Old 09-25-08, 05:26 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NE Wis / Paris France{ In France for now }
Posts: 4,808
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ibpooks View Post
Historically, hardwired in-ground pool pumps have not required GFCI protection. I do not recall if the change was in NEC2005 or NEC2008, but it is now mandatory for new installations. It is probable that the GFCI breakers were not required at the time your pumps were installed.

Ben .,,

Historywise 2005NEC or before the 240v hardwired pool pump do not need GFCI but if you slide in 2008 NEC unforetally you will need GFCI no matter which way.

It did change in 2008 NEC.

Merci,Marc
 
  #6  
Old 09-25-08, 06:14 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 1,155
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I probably should update pool with a GFCI breaker. Had sticker shock when I asked for price when getting wire today-$220 for a double pole 20amp GFCI breaker!
 
  #7  
Old 09-25-08, 07:40 PM
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 4,683
Received 27 Votes on 26 Posts
Double pole GFI breakers are quite expensive, but I'd shop around a bit. $220 sounds a bit high.
 
  #8  
Old 09-25-08, 08:09 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NE Wis / Paris France{ In France for now }
Posts: 4,808
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by hammerash View Post
I probably should update pool with a GFCI breaker. Had sticker shock when I asked for price when getting wire today-$220 for a double pole 20amp GFCI breaker!
If you don't mind telling me the breaker manufacter it is ? maybe I can check to see if your price is in the range or not.

Merci,Marc
 
  #9  
Old 09-25-08, 08:46 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 1,155
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Square D, QO breaker box French.
 
  #10  
Old 09-25-08, 09:08 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NE Wis / Paris France{ In France for now }
Posts: 4,808
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
$220 is little high side unless you got QO250GFCI breaker then it is right on target.

Merci,Marc
 
  #11  
Old 09-26-08, 10:21 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Near Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 10,944
Received 42 Votes on 40 Posts
Sorry to bear the bad news, but the Q0 breaker line is much more expensive than most others. The $220 price is pretty much on target for that breaker.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: