240 Vac Pool Circuit with a GFI 120 Branch?


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Old 11-14-08, 05:24 PM
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240 Vac Pool Circuit with a GFI 120 Branch?

We have a swimming pool pump that has a 240 Vac circuit breaker feed. At the pool pump, the previous owner had a 120 Vac GFI fed from this same feed (the black to the neutral). The GFI outlet is used to feed some landscape lighting. Is this OK ? It seems odd to me to piggyback the single phase feed onto the pool pump circuit. If it is wrong, by the way we are in Southern Florida, I will remove it and wire it separately.
Thanks
 
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Old 11-14-08, 06:53 PM
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There are too many missing details to know. But it might be okay.
 
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Old 11-14-08, 07:28 PM
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Black, red, white and ground run from the main panel to a disconnect at the pool pump. The black, white and red along with ground goes to the pool pump, 240 Vac. In the outside disconnect, non-fused, they spliced into the black and white to a duplex receptacle GFI. The GFI also connects into ground. I did not think it was OK to derive a 120 Vac circuit from a remote 240 Vac disconnect.
 
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Old 11-14-08, 07:38 PM
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If you are saying the 120v take off does not have over current protection (breaker or fuse) then it is wrong. If the feed to the switch and pump was done with cable rather then individual conductors it is wrong if the ground wire is bare not insulated.
Black, red, white and ground run from the main panel to a disconnect at the pool pump
 
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Old 11-14-08, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by n1ml View Post
I did not think it was OK to derive a 120 Vac circuit from a remote 240 Vac disconnect.
It can be okay under the correct circumstances; it's a type of shared neutral or multiwire branch circuit. The most pressing in my mind would be the amperage draw of the pump. If it's less than 50% of the circuit ampacity and the circuit is 15A or 20A, then adding the receptacle is probably okay in terms of code.
 
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Old 11-15-08, 02:48 PM
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It's a 20 amp 240 Vac circuit. The pump motor is one HP or about 800 watts, about 4 amps. The GFI/duplex receptacle is a 20 amp but the load is less than 1 amp from the lights and it is not used for anything else. Sounds like it is OK.
 
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Old 11-15-08, 05:28 PM
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Are the ground wires bare or insulated? They sounded like they may be bare copper because you didn't mention their color and it read like you were describing UF cable.
 
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Old 11-15-08, 07:19 PM
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The grounds are bare copper. The cable from the main panel to the disconnect is insulated red, black, white and a bare copper. The cable to the GFI is insulated black, white and a bare copper ground.
 
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Old 11-15-08, 07:44 PM
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Unforetally with current codes it is not legit with that set up due the bare grounding conductor for pool / spa useage the code is very specifc on Art 680.

How old this set up been for ? the reason why along the way the code did change some time back to get a better protection.

Is the cable is UF feeder type or ran whole thing in conduit ?

That will make the differnce there.

Really it should have subpanel there due you have extra circuit to being used for luminaries.

Merci,Marc
 
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Old 11-16-08, 06:21 AM
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The house and wiring is 1990. The Romex type cable leaves the main panel and runs through the attic space. It enters a conduit that runs down through a masonary exterior wall to about 4 feeet above ground level. This is where a 60 amp disconnect is mounted to the exterior wall of the house. Liquidtite leaves the disconnect box and goes directly to the pump motor. The 120 Vac GFI box is mounted about 6" below the 60 amp disconnect box. The GFI is a standard 20A duplex receptable type with a weatherproof plexiglass openable cover.
 
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Old 11-16-08, 03:32 PM
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Wow.,,

Bear with me I will get ahold of one of the electrician in that state and maybe he can able give me some straight details for that era to see how legit it was for that time so bear with me and I will reply to you ASAP.

Merci,Marc
 
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Old 11-16-08, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by n1ml View Post
Black, red, white and ground run from the main panel to a disconnect at the pool pump. The black, white and red along with ground goes to the pool pump, 240 Vac. In the outside disconnect, non-fused, they spliced into the black and white to a duplex receptacle GFI. The GFI also connects into ground. I did not think it was OK to derive a 120 Vac circuit from a remote 240 Vac disconnect.
You are correct. You cannot protect a 120v circuit with a two pole breaker. The gfi outlet needs it's own circuit.
 
 

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