Time to replace Federal Pacific panel

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Old 02-15-09, 05:39 PM
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Time to replace Federal Pacific panel

I have a 30 year old house which is being remodeled and added on to. Due to the nature of the addition we will have to move our meter and install a new service panel in the new garage.
My question is: 1) should we remove the old service panel and splice the existing wires in a large junction box in the attic and extend the wire to the new service panel or 2) replace the Federal Pacific service panel with a new service panel and feed this panel with OTT 2 from the new service panel in the garage. The current FPE panel is 200A 40 spaces. Current breaker configuration is 6-15amp, 8-20amp, 10-30amp, 1-40amp and 6-50amp. The run from the old FPE panel to the new service panel is 42'.
Which of these 2 options is the best way to go for both cost and design.
 
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Old 02-15-09, 06:11 PM
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I would install a 200 amp main breaker feed through load center as your service, then use the feed through lugs and install a 200 amp panel to replace the fed pac panel, then feed new circuits off of the new service panel.

Is your garage attached or detached?
 
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Old 02-15-09, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by EastTx View Post
. Current breaker configuration is 6-15amp, 8-20amp, 10-30amp, 1-40amp and 6-50amp. .

I don't know if something came up not right I counted total of 48 spaces keep in your mind two pole count as two spaces so recheck the 30 amp rating there.

and did you do the load calucations yet ?

Again the rules may change a bit if you have attached or detached garage.

Merci,Marc
 
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Old 02-16-09, 02:45 PM
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The first # is the number of breakers the second the amps. The total number of circuits is 32. Only one breaker is double pole. The garage is attached at the roof with a 10' breezeway separating the two structures. Part of the ceiling over the breezeway will be used as attic storage.
 
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Old 02-16-09, 02:57 PM
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The garage is attached at the roof with a 10' breezeway separating the two structures. Part of the ceiling over the breezeway will be used as attic storage.

How do we get electricity from the new 200 amp main breaker in the new garage to the new 200 amp panel replacing the old FPE panel.
 
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Old 02-16-09, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by EastTx View Post
Current breaker configuration is 6-15amp, 8-20amp, 10-30amp, 1-40amp and 6-50amp.
I also don't see how you can have 10-30 amp, 1-40amp, and 6-50 amp and only one of these be a two pole breaker. That doesn't make any sense.

Originally Posted by EastTx View Post
The run from the old FPE panel to the new service panel is 42'.
Which of these 2 options is the best way to go for both cost and design.
Best thing to do is do a load calc. on your existing service and see if you can feed the new house panel with something less than 200 amps. Then size your wire from the new panel to the old panel based on your load calc. You may find the easiest way to feed the new house panel is to trench from the garage to the house and bury the wires directly 24" down.
 
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Old 02-18-09, 10:14 AM
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pics added

I apologize if my description of the old FPE service panel and breaker configuration is not correct. Therefore I have attach 2 photos of the service panel. The reason the meter has to be moved is because the existing buried line is now under concrete. The utility company is allowing the situation on a temporary basis during construction. We had planned to feed the new house service panel by running wire above the garage ceiling over the breezeway and to the location of the panel servicing the house. As you can see in the pic the house currently has 200amp service. We intend to use a 40 space 200amp panel in the house and a few new circuits will be added.
The link to the pics is: http://www.insbuyer.com/servicepanel.html
 

Last edited by french277V; 02-18-09 at 02:54 PM. Reason: took the extra "W" off from the link
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Old 02-18-09, 02:15 PM
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Quick note: Your link has one too many w's

Looking at your picture, your panel has: 1 - 2 pole 20 amp, 1 - 2 pole 40 amp, 3 - 2 pole 50 amp, 5 - 2 pole 30 amp, 6 - single pole 15 amp, and 6 single pole 20 amp breakers. For a total of 22 circuits and 32 spaces used.

Since you have so many large loads in your existing panel I don't suggest feeding that panel with anything less than 200 amps.

I can see two options:
Do as mentioned before getting a 200 amp feed through panel. Put that in the garage and then feed a new 200 amp in the house.
However, you most likely do not need 200 amps in the garage so I suggest that you mount the meter on the garage. Then trench underground down from the meter to the new panel you are going to install in the house. Then in the same trench come back with a 100 amp feed off the house panel back to the garage and install a new 100 amp panel in side the garage.
 

Last edited by Tolyn Ironhand; 02-18-09 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 02-18-09, 03:06 PM
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This what I came up with the numbers of breakers.,

3 - 2P 50A
5 - 2P 30A
1 - 1P 40A*
1 - 1P 20A*
7 - 1P 20A
6 - 1P 15A


* - Fullsize single pole format that is not a double pole due the way it land on the bussbar. { if you have anything run on 240 volts from this one it will not function at all }


Toyln have one good option and here my other option get all in one box with 200 amp feed thru lugs run the 200 amp rated conductors { must be sized properly per NEC codes }and use 100 amp breaker to feed in the garage and set up both new garage breaker box and exsting main breaker to subfeed format which it will be 4 conductors.

before you go that route check with the POCO to see what type of meter socket they will approve it first before you buy the meter socket and if you get wrong one the POCO will not hook up the power.

Merci,Marc
 
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Old 02-18-09, 03:29 PM
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That 40 amp threw me because I don't think I have ever installed a 120 volt, 40 amp breaker for anything. And it looks like it was taking up two space. Can you tell I don't work on FPE much?

Thanks for pointing that out Frenchy!
 
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Old 02-18-09, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Tolyn Ironhand View Post
That 40 amp threw me because I don't think I have ever installed a 120 volt, 40 amp breaker for anything. And it looks like it was taking up two spaces.

The only time I ran into like that is useally found in commercal building with some very high current useage like copy machine { old style mind ya on that one } some case data system and from time to time monster sized HID as well.

However if this used in Europe that nothing new it is common.

Merci,Marc
 
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Old 02-18-09, 06:45 PM
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FWIW, the "Wide" 40A is a an "NA" breaker, the rest "NC".

I couldn't imagine a legitimate reaaon for a 120V 40A circuit in the home, let alone 3 50A circuits, expept maybe an electric furnace.
 
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Old 02-18-09, 07:00 PM
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Maybe a 40a SP breaker for an RV plug? Maybe three 50a DP breakers for an instant water heater? Maybe the OP will let us know.
 
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Old 02-19-09, 12:41 PM
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It appears the pic's helped. The house is all electric and I think the previous owner had the 40 amp breaker installed to service an outdoor hot tub.

Can we reuse our old meter socket?

The distance from the new meter location on the garage to the old panel is 100% cover by concrete and the new construction. Can the feed from the new meter location in the garage go up into the new attic space and run across the ceiling joist to the location of the old service panel? If yes will this require 3 - 2 OTT wires to feed the house panel and do they need to be in conduit.

Our current service feed is buried to the meter. Because our new construction is over their buried line they are making us move the meter location. They are concerned about the future service ability of the line which was installed in the 70's.
 
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Old 02-19-09, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by EastTx View Post
Can we reuse our old meter socket?
Not usually. The power company should have a list of approved meter sockets and certainly the old one won't be on it. The newer 200A sockets are bigger to accommodate the larger bending radius required for the heavy wires.

Can the feed from the new meter location in the garage go up into the new attic space and run across the ceiling joist to the location of the old service panel? If yes will this require 3 - 2 OTT wires to feed the house panel and do they need to be in conduit.
Yes, you can run the wire through the attic as long as there is a disconnection on the outside of the building near the meter. Usually this is in the form of a breaker panel -- the 200A panel with feed-through lugs is a good idea. I strongly prefer to use conduit for service wires although it is not required if the area is not subject to damage. I would use individual conductors in 2" PVC conduit. You may be able to use SER cable instead of the conduit.

Typical 200A wire size is #2/0 copper hots and neutral with #4 copper ground or #4/0 aluminum hots and neutral with #2 aluminum ground. Depending on what the final plan is you may need to increase a size.
 
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Old 02-19-09, 03:30 PM
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Another thing to account for is ungrounded 120/240 circuits as a range or dryer would use.

They were permitted to be run off of only the main panel. Since the new panel will be a Sub Panel with separate neutral and ground, you will need to replace those circuits with new 4 wire grounded circuits.
 
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