NEMA 14-30R help please!

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Old 03-08-09, 05:41 AM
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NEMA 14-30R help please!

I have a machine that has a NEMA 14-30 plug but my house doesn't have a 14-30 outlet. My house is in Vietnam and everyone runs on 220V here. There's only 2 wires running from the breaker box and it seems like all appliances in Vietnam use 2 wires, which I'm guessing is live and neutral. I was told there's no way I can connect to this system (true?). 14-30 has 4 prongs: Green (Ground), White (Neutral), X (Live), Y (Live). So does that mean X is 250V and Y is 125V or is it vice versa?

What are my options? Can I modify a transformer and hookup a 14-30 outlet to it?
 
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Old 03-08-09, 08:29 AM
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Im not sure what configuration the wires have where you are, but the 14-30 you described is a 120/240 configuration ....x=120, y=120 , w=neutral, and g=ground. x+y =240, x+w =120 , y+W=120.

X and Y are both 120 by themselves, but since they are on opposing legs, They can be combined to equal 220.

If your wiring in Vietnam is 220 line and a neutral , then no, without major modification, you cant use the machine.
 
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Old 03-08-09, 12:30 PM
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if a machine requires a 14 series recep, they do so because parts of the equipment require 120 volts and others require 240 volts. The dryers here in the US are typical appliances using this configuration. The heating element is a 240 volt device and the controls are generally 120 volt.

Without both, hooked up correctly, you will generally damage the equipment.
 
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Old 03-08-09, 07:23 PM
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1. Is there any differences between X and Y?

2. I can buy transformers/power converters that output 120V. Can I connect a 120V wire to each X and Y?

3. Can you give me a detailed description for each wire (Red, Black, etc., voltage, freq, etc.) and how/where they are installed on a 14-30 receptacle?

Sorry for all the questions but my business depends on this.
 

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Old 03-08-09, 08:09 PM
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Really no. They are just each 120V from neutral, 180 degrees out of phase of each other.

If you know how, you can adapt the 120V circuits off of a transformer, and the 240V circuits off the domestic 240V. Ideally, the devoce will have its primary loads as 240V, with 120V controls and minor loads.

Another way would be to use a full power ( 5KW) transformer,
 
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Old 03-08-09, 10:17 PM
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2. I can buy transformers/power converters that output 120V. Can I connect a 120V wire to each X and Y?
but you still need 240 from X to Y terminals and unless the two 120 volt sources are from the same source and opposing phases, you are not going to have the 240 volts.


3. Can you give me a detailed description for each wire (Red, Black, etc., voltage, freq, etc.) and how/where they are installed on a 14-30 receptacle?
the same as before;

black and red would go to X and Y. The common neutral would go to the neutral terminal (W) and the equipment grounding conductor to the G terminal. As I said, the X an Y power sources MUST use a common neutral so they have to be supplied by a 120/240 volt power source. Frequency is not something you typically alter. Equipment needs what it is listed for. If your supply does not provide the freq needed, then you can't use it.
 
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Old 03-08-09, 11:20 PM
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The Vietnam power supply is typically 230 volts Line - Netural format and if you snag in Line to Line format that typically can be 380 or 400 volts depending on the grid system.{ there are very limited area that have 60 HZ supply but very rare to see it unless you are on Miltary base }

And the HZ rating all them are running on 50 HZ so that is one of few major quirks that some machines may not work at all.

As far for other details other guys got the point there.

Merci,Marc
 
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Old 03-09-09, 12:52 AM
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Thanks for all the replies. I feel like I'm back in school again.

Any recommendations on work-arounds or am I now stuck with a 100lb, nine thousand dollar paper weight?

Machine Specs:
Volts: 208/220/230/240
Hertz: 50/60
Phase: 1
KW: 4.4/4.9/5.3/5.8
Amps: 21/22.1/23/24
 
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Old 03-09-09, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by tamdoankc View Post
Thanks for all the replies. I feel like I'm back in school again.

Any recommendations on work-arounds or am I now stuck with a 100lb, nine thousand dollar paper weight?

Machine Specs:
Volts: 208/220/230/240
Hertz:50/60
Phase: 1
KW: 4.4/4.9/5.3/5.8
Amps: 21/22.1/23/24
I put in bold which it will tell what Hertz it will be running.

You will have no issue running it on 50 HZ however the crictal part is the netrual which it may affect it so check with your owner manual or installment manual or wiring diagram to verify it.

Before you make the final hook up verify the power supply to make sure you got correct votlage as speced you may have to change the voltage tap to the correct voltage system.

However there is other issue if your machine do have plug on it you will have to change it to fit their format.

If you have doubt you can get a hold of the electrician in that area they will know the correct answer what it need to be done.

Merci,Marc
 
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Old 03-09-09, 02:27 PM
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hold on there. Those specs do not state anything about 120/240 voltage. All of those volt specs are line to line voltages of different types of power supplies. No neutral indicated.

Do you have a schematic for this critter? Maybe the 14-30 is not correct. Is this machine new? If not, maybe somebody changed it to this plug because they had a recep available already of the same configuration.
 
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Old 03-09-09, 06:58 PM
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14-30 is correct. I will upload the schematics as soon as I get it scanned in. Thanks again for all the help. Beer 4U2
 
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Old 03-09-09, 07:34 PM
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I'll be around but the specs you provided do NOT require the split voltage.

From what Marc said, it would be one hot and the neut and no second leg.


but, if you can, scan the schematics and we'll take a look to try to be positive.
 
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Old 03-09-09, 07:36 PM
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I can help with one part of this thread. You asked if there was a transformer to resolve the problem. For the one issue of the neutral to go along with the 240v, if you use a one to one transformer with a center tapped output you get the required neutral. May not be needed, but that is how you create two opposing 120v circuits so you get your 240 and 120 on the same plug.

Bud
 
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Old 03-10-09, 09:55 AM
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Schematics

I hope they are clear enough. Took them with a digital camera and came out clearer than scanning. The model I have is the MKII and it has the Standard Conveyor

Wiring to the main unit:


Wiring to the conveyor
 
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Old 03-10-09, 02:55 PM
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Well, it would appear the data plate is incorrect. There is a need for 240 volts and 120 volts supplies so the 14-30 would be correct.

If Marc is correct on the voltage supply in Vietnam, the only remedy I see is purchasing a transformer that would supply the 120/240 volt supply needed for this machine.
 
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Old 03-10-09, 03:40 PM
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This is a Donut machine.

It seems that a large part of its draw is a heating element. The larger 120V loads are a couple of smaller motors, which BTW apparently have a 50 Hz terminal. I think a 1Kva or 1.5 Kva transformer would be plenty to supply them and the controls.
 
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Old 03-10-09, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by classicsat View Post
This is a Donut machine.

It seems that a large part of its draw is a heating element. The larger 120V loads are a couple of smaller motors, which BTW apparently have a 50 Hz terminal. I think a 1Kva or 1.5 Kva transformer would be plenty to supply them and the controls.
not a bad idea but OP would need to separate the heating element circuit from the rest of the unit. Not an overly hard thing to do but it should be done in a safe manner.
 
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Old 03-10-09, 08:12 PM
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if i were to rewire the machine what will i need to do? Can someone edit the schematics to show me how it would be rewired?
 
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Old 03-10-09, 11:30 PM
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This what I will do .,

Verify with the electrician in that area to make sure that you have 240 volt Line to Netual supply make sure they don't bring in 400/415 volt supply driect to this machine.

What you need to do is get the correct transfomer for it there is two way to do this.

I will break it in two parts due the supply voltage may change a bit here.

240 VOLT SUPPLY

you will need to get at least 6 KVA single phase transfomer 240X 120/240 { 240 volt primary X 120/240 volt secondary } make sure it have centre tapped transfomer.

I am not sure what plug format they used in Vietnam on thier system due they used few diffrent format on them.

But make sure you get correct amp rating on them and correct OCPD { overcurrent protection device aka breaker or fuse }
On secondary side you can keep the NEMA receptale {14-30} there

I will mention one more change on one motour little latter after my second part

400/415 volt supply

This part is crictal MAKE SURE you get single phase on this one it is too easy to snag in three phase supply on this one you don't need it for this one.

Again you will need at least 6 KVA single phase transfomer 400X120/240 set up { 400 volt supply with 120X240 volt secondary }

again with 400 volt supply I do not know if they will come with plug in or hardwired verison on this size due the voltage rating on primary side.

on secondary side again keep the same plug format NEMA 14-30P


Now let get into one more detail for correct useage due the diagram you provided to us you will have to change the motor connection on the gearmotor you will see white and black wire going to the gear motor and you see unused red lead there swap that one with black lead and make sure you capped off properly.


As far for timer relay you may want to finetune it and keep it your mind when you run in 50 HZ supply you will noted the motor speed will be slower than it was oringally on 60 HZ format as you can see on convyuer motor there that need to be change as far for timer if that is electronic I don't think it will be a issue unless stated in the owner manual or installment instruction or timer instruction { sometime they will tell you a trick on that }

other than looks like ya good to go after you get the correct transfomer if you can not able get 6 KVA transfomer you can go big as 10 KVA transfomer.

I will let other members here chime in if they have more details to speak up in here.

Merci,Marc
 
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Old 03-11-09, 07:23 PM
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The easiset would be a full 6KVA transformer, no internal wiring modification is needs (except perhaps swiitching to the 50Hz tap on the motor)

Second easiest would be an autotransfomer, connectet to the two hots and the neutral on the CT. That will of course, bring the internal neutral to 120V, and the former 120V circuit to 0 or 240V, depending on which original hot is connected to neutral. To fix that, connect white to the true supply neutral, and the and black from the circuit breaker (originally connected with line cord black on the first contactor, power switch being item 20 on the schematic) to the CT on the auto transformer, or connect a normal 240 to 120 transformer to white and circuit breaker black. Upon further reading, the C.B is only 5A, which is 600W as 120V, so you could use a transformer of at least that capacity.
 
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Old 03-11-09, 08:25 PM
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I went to look for a transformer yesterday with no luck. Only huge expensive industrial ones. In Vietnam we seem to have an unlimited supply of convertors/stabilizers that have 220V in and 110V and 220V out sockets. Unfortunately, they are only 2 line out. Anything I can do with that?
 
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Old 03-12-09, 03:08 AM
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