Help me install a gfci in a 6 wire(no ground wire) box

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Old 03-13-09, 01:57 PM
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Help me install a gfci in a 6 wire(no ground wire) box

I have 6 wires in the box by the bathroom sink.(2 red, 2 white, 2 black soddered and taped together).

got the line/load all figured out. when I go to turn the light on it pops the gfci.

Im at my wits end. It says to contact a qualified electrician if trying to install in a setup with more then four wires (not including grounds) wish I would of read that part a couple days ago.

I have no ground wire but the box is grounded. im guessin I need to run something to the taped blacks?

please help.

thanks in advance
 
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Old 03-13-09, 02:22 PM
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How did you wire it? How was the existing receptacle wired before?
 
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Old 03-13-09, 03:21 PM
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It was wired with 2 reds opposite 2 white.

I wired it with reds and whites as well. made sure I had my line and load proper.
 
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Old 03-13-09, 04:50 PM
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Try measuring between red and white for voltage or install a regular receptacle and check by plugging in a lamp. The presence of red and black would suggest there might be a switch involved. Any switches you never knew what they did? Is the breaker that supplies this a single pole breaker or a two pole breaker? Red and black could also indicate a multi-wire circuit. Are there any other GFCIs on this circuit?
 
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Old 03-13-09, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
Try measuring between red and white for voltage or install a regular receptacle and check by plugging in a lamp. The presence of red and black would suggest there might be a switch involved. Any switches you never knew what they did? Is the breaker that supplies this a single pole breaker or a two pole breaker? Red and black could also indicate a multi-wire circuit. Are there any other GFCIs on this circuit?
Reds Hot, white is not. A regular receptacle works fine. Its always hot and the switch turns the vanity light on and off. Its a single pole switch.

All switches accounted for. The switch appears to get to the vanity light through the outlet. no other gfci in the house

The gfci shows it wired properly and works like it should.... untill I turn the light switch.

The instructions for the gfci state to contact a qualified electrician for a six wire setup. Which sounds like it can be done.
 
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Old 03-13-09, 10:57 PM
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What color wires at the switch and what color wires at the light?
 
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Old 03-13-09, 11:11 PM
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i believe its older cloth black spliced with something I think another black ( gonna run across the street and double check after I post) thats at the bottom of the switch. another black up top.

black and two joined whites for the light. the black turns the light on.

tried to join the hot sodered reds to the black and that leaves the light on regardles of switch.

works fine with a normal receptacle as wired.

really want a gfci there.
 
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Old 03-13-09, 11:34 PM
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Switch:

Old cloth black joined with a red feeding the bottom of the switch

modern black wire leaving the switch

cloth white and modern white taped togetherand pushed in the back of box.


Receptacle:

2 reds 2 whites for the outlet

2 blacks taped together pushed in back


Light:

modern white and old cloth white joined

one modern black

cloth black and modern red taped and pushed in back of the box

hope that helps

thanks
 
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Old 03-14-09, 09:18 AM
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If none of these are cable my first comment is that the new black and white can;t be used. It must be cable or BX. However this is a code problem not a wiring problem. You said the GFCI stopped working when the switch was on? Do you mean it tripped? Not instantly tracking on how the circuit is wired from your description. It seems both switched (black) and un-switched (red) power goes from the switch to the receptacle then switched power (black) goes to the light. However I'm confused by why in the light Jbox you write cloth black and modern red taped and pushed in back of the box. There should be only a black in the light Jbox unless there is a second light on the switch. Is there a second light? Maybe trying to over analyze. For now just answer what you meant by The gfci shows it wired properly and works like it should.... until I turn the light switch. You mean turn the light on and the GFCI trips?
 
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Old 03-14-09, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
If none of these are cable my first comment is that the new black and white can;t be used. It must be cable or BX. However this is a code problem not a wiring problem. You said the GFCI stopped working when the switch was on? Do you mean it tripped? Not instantly tracking on how the circuit is wired from your description. It seems both switched (black) and un-switched (red) power goes from the switch to the receptacle then switched power (black) goes to the light. However I'm confused by why in the light Jbox you write cloth black and modern red taped and pushed in back of the box. There should be only a black in the light Jbox unless there is a second light on the switch. Is there a second light? Maybe trying to over analyze. For now just answer what you meant by The gfci shows it wired properly and works like it should.... until I turn the light switch. You mean turn the light on and the GFCI trips?
no second light. the cloth black and newer red are in the back of the light.

the gfci wired prop with line/load had no problem running an industrial carpet cleaning machine. it test properly and shuts down everything after it in the circuit.

as soon as i switch the light it pops
 
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Old 03-14-09, 10:58 AM
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Hopefully one of the pros will come along to help. I am at a loss to explain what is happening.

I am not yet suggesting you do this but this is the point where I would either disconnect all wires and trace them out using an ohm meter then reconnect them in a manner that made sense to me or more likely given the presence of K&T wires, no ground, and a 15 amp circuit just abandon the existing wires and run a new 20 amp grounded circuit to switch, light, and receptacle.
 
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Old 03-14-09, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
Hopefully one of the pros will come along to help. I am at a loss to explain what is happening.

I am not yet suggesting you do this but this is the point where I would either disconnect all wires and trace them out using an ohm meter then reconnect them in a manner that made sense to me or more likely given the presence of K&T wires, no ground, and a 15 amp circuit just abandon the existing wires and run a new 20 amp grounded circuit to switch, light, and receptacle.
well, thanks for your timely responses in helping me figure this out.

No knob and tube wiring. its all covered.(knob and tube is bare wire around ceramic rings, right?)
when I listed as old they are just older cloth.

for now im just gonna put a 3 prong instead of the gfi.
the box is grounded.

everything works fine like that. so untill further info i'll keep it like that.

got lots of other projects to work on.
 
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Old 03-14-09, 11:53 AM
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Assuming they are available for your box you might put it on a GFCI breaker and see what happens?
 
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