Pool Wiring

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Old 03-30-09, 11:15 AM
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Pool Wiring

Can 2 separate circuits be run in the same buried conduit for an above ground pool install? I have 12-2 UF-B for the pool pump and 14-2 UF-B for the pool light/courtesy outlet that I'd like to put into 1 inch pvc. Can I do this code-wise? I am familiar with the requirements of section 680 of the National Electrical Code, and I think that I already know the answer to my question , but I want to ask to make sure.
 
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Old 03-30-09, 11:43 AM
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UF-B can not be used for a pool because the ground is uninsulated. UF-B is not intended to be run in conduit except for short sections for protection. You will need to use THWN for the pool with a insulted ground wire. Two circuits in one conduit is OK but if this goes to a shed you can have only one circuit.
 
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Old 03-30-09, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Don W View Post
Can 2 separate circuits be run in the same buried conduit for an above ground pool install?
Yes they could be, except...

I have 12-2 UF-B for the pool pump and 14-2 UF-B for the pool light/courtesy outlet that I'd like to put into 1 inch pvc.
type UF-B cable is not allowed for a pool circuit as it does not have an insulated ground wire. If you instead transition to individual conductor THWN in colors black, white and green (not bare), then you may proceed with your plan assuming everything else is up to snuff. The only other caveat may be the location of your GFCI protection -- you can't run a non-GFCI circuit in the same conduit with the GFCI pool pump circuit.

Please see this recent thread for a discussion of some of the other requirements of an above-ground pool pump.
 
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Old 03-30-09, 12:36 PM
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Both circuits will be run to their individual GFCI outlets. Seeings how I already have UF-B wire, can I still use that and not use the ground that comes with them, and run a 12 gauge THWN ground wire for both circuits? Or does each circuit require their own ground? I actually thought that running UF-B in conduit is giving more protection than needed. Kind of beefing it up.
 
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Old 03-30-09, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Don W View Post
Seeings how I already have UF-B wire, can I still use that and not use the ground that comes with them, and run a 12 gauge THWN ground wire for both circuits?
Technically I don't think so, but it would be a good question to ask the inspector. If you get one who follows the strict letter of the code, he'll say no; but you might get one who's more lenient and will give it the okay.

Personally, I don't see what harm it causes to use a bare ground wire, but the code says we have to use insulated green and that's what the inspector looks for.

Or does each circuit require their own ground?
They can share a #12 ground.

I actually thought that running UF-B in conduit is giving more protection than needed. Kind of beefing it up.
The problem with pulling UF into conduit is that UF isn't very flexible compared to THWN, so it can bind on the corners and twist which can damage the cable. That probably isn't a concern in your case though since you used 1" conduit.
 
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Old 04-01-09, 10:45 AM
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I don't want to be a pain, I just want to get this right. My pool light/courtesy outlet I had planned on a 15 amp circuit using 14 gauge. Doing some reading I discovered:
"NEC Article 680.23.F.1. The conductors must be single conductors and insulated including the 12 awg copper equipment grounding conductor." (THWN) Does this mean 14 gauge for hot & neutral & 12 gauge for ground, or do I have to scrap the 15 amp/14 gauge idea and go with 20 amp/ 12 gauge for the pool light? Just one side-note: I never would have thought that running THWN in conduit for an outside application was procedural. I have seen PVC runs before with water in them and therefor thought UF-B was the way to go. Thanks for the nudge in the right direction. I also thought that a while back I was told that only one circuit per conduit was acceptable as if you had two, one could jump to the other. Too many of these Beer 4U2 between jobs to keep it straight. Thanks to all for the input.
 
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Old 04-01-09, 11:55 AM
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I am going to let IPbooks continue to answer your questions since he has more pool experience than I do.

The W in THWN insulation is W for wet. This is why it is allowed to be used in outside or wet applications. Individual conductors are much easier to install in conduit than trying to pull in a cable.
 
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Old 04-01-09, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Don W View Post
Does this mean 14 gauge for hot & neutral & 12 gauge for ground, or do I have to scrap the 15 amp/14 gauge idea and go with 20 amp/ 12 gauge for the pool light?
I did have to check my code book on this one -- I know the minimum ground for the motor is #12, but wasn't sure on the light. The ground wire for the pool light must be #12 insulated green copper. The hots can be #14, but I guess why bother?

Just one side-note: I never would have thought that running THWN in conduit for an outside application was procedural. I have seen PVC runs before with water in them and therefor thought UF-B was the way to go.
Yep; the "W" in the rating is for wet locations. What may be confusing is that individual conductor THHN which looks identical to THWN cannot be used in wet locations. However with modern manufacturing processes almost all THHN is also rated as THWN-2 and a couple other types if you read the tiny printing on the wire.

I also thought that a while back I was told that only one circuit per conduit was acceptable as if you had two, one could jump to the other.
That can be a concern in some cases so you are sometimes restricted as to which circuits can share conduits, but generally speaking many circuits may share a conduit.
 
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