220V GFCI breaker

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Old 05-03-09, 03:40 PM
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220V GFCI breaker

As you are probably aware already I am putting a hottub in my back yard. Most of the "cutoff" boxes seem to come with GFCI built in, so the simple thing would seem to be to use a regular breaker at the panel and the GFCI at the cutoff. I've not done a GFCI 220V breaker before, so the question is, does it need the neutral? The hot tub is 3-wire (no neutral needed for it) and the outlet required by code won't be on the same circuit, so I'm thinking I'll save a little $ by not pulling a neutral.

Also, I was planning to use 1" conduit, but with only 3 wires, maybe 3/4" would be fine? (50amp breaker, 120' of run, total)

Thanks!
 
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Old 05-03-09, 04:43 PM
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I'm no electrician, but I don't think there are 220v GFCI's. Hang in there, and someone with more brain power then I can chime in.
 
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Old 05-03-09, 04:44 PM
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Yes, You will need a neutral for the GFCI breaker.

JimBeer 4U2
 
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Old 05-03-09, 06:58 PM
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Most hot tubs require two hots and a neutral. You may want to double check the specs. Since you are running PVC pipe you will also need a ground.

I would also suggest the Cutler Hammer tub disconnect. It has the GFCI breaker plus 2 extra slots for a receptacle.

I suggest sticking with the 1" PVC can be tough to pull through sometimes.
 
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Old 05-03-09, 07:38 PM
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Yeah there is 220 volt GFCI breaker on market.

Most hottubs in the states are useally have two hot conductors and netural very few hot tubs do have straight 240 volt set up.

Keep in your mind with disconnection switch the codes will require them withen 5 feet IIRC.

Most hot tub installment I useally dealt with it most case it will be wise to run with 1 inch PVC conduit it make it little more easier to pull it thru the conduit and also make sure the ground conductor is green the bare conductor in this area is not allowed

Note: the only time it will be allowed the bare conductor is indoor but when you get to the outdoor side you must change it by putting in junction box and run green conductor from there.

Merci,Marc
 
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Old 05-03-09, 08:07 PM
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It also sound like you will have it somewhere in your yard. Where will this hot tub be sitting on? Grass?, Concrete?, Wood?

Jim
 

Last edited by pcboss; 05-04-09 at 06:29 AM. Reason: removed ground rod comment
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Old 05-03-09, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Tolyn Ironhand View Post
Most hot tubs require two hots and a neutral. You may want to double check the specs.
...
The specs seem pretty clear that a separate neutral is not needed. They are at http://www.jacuzzihottubs.com/reques...7_J400_LCD.pdf

Originally Posted by rukkus11 View Post
It also sound like you will have it somewhere in your yard. Where will this hot tub be sitting on? Grass?, Concrete?, Wood?
It will be on EZ Pad (plastic) over compacted sand and soil. No metal nearby to require bonding.

Why do you say the disconnect will need a ground rod? It's not a subpanel in a seperate structure, and I didn't see it in section 680, and it hasn't come up on any of the descriptions of installations that I've seen, even when the disconnect is away from the house, so I'll need more to go on.

I see that even though the hot tub doesn't need neutral, the GFCI will. It looks like a GFCI breaker in the panel and a cheap (non-GFCI) disconnect box would let me save $ by not using 100' of 6# for neutral.


Thanks for the help!
 

Last edited by pcboss; 05-04-09 at 06:35 AM. Reason: removed ground rod comment
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Old 05-04-09, 06:33 AM
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The disconnect will NOT require a grounding rod.

If you install the GFI breaker at the main house panel you will connect the neutral pigtail to the buss. You would not need to run a neutral to the tub if the specs do not call for one.

You would still need the green insulated grounding conductor.
 
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Old 05-04-09, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by RichA View Post
The specs seem pretty clear that a separate neutral is not needed. They are at http://www.jacuzzihottubs.com/reques...7_J400_LCD.pdf



It will be on EZ Pad (plastic) over compacted sand and soil. No metal nearby to require bonding.

Why do you say the disconnect will need a ground rod? It's not a subpanel in a seperate structure, and I didn't see it in section 680, and it hasn't come up on any of the descriptions of installations that I've seen, even when the disconnect is away from the house, so I'll need more to go on.

I see that even though the hot tub doesn't need neutral, the GFCI will. It looks like a GFCI breaker in the panel and a cheap (non-GFCI) disconnect box would let me save $ by not using 100' of 6# for neutral.


Thanks for the help!
I'm sorry the bring up the ground rod. You don't need a ground rod for the Hot Tub. I was trying to get at that if you were putting it on a concrete pad ( you're not ) then all the rebar in the concrete would have been tight together and then bonded to your system. I call this concrete encased grounding. Sorry for the confusion. I'll think before I write next time.

Jim
 
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Old 05-04-09, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by RichA View Post
Most of the "cutoff" boxes seem to come with GFCI built in, so the simple thing would seem to be to use a regular breaker at the panel and the GFCI at the cutoff.
Not only simpler, but usually cheaper too. A double-pole GFCI breaker is almost $200 for some panels (Q0 I'm looking at you). Since your tub does not need the neutral, however you would have to weigh the price of the GFCI breaker with no neutral conductor versus the price of pulling the LINE neutral out to the GFCI disconnect box.

I've not done a GFCI 220V breaker before, so the question is, does it need the neutral?
The breaker will have a white pigtail that does need to connect to the neutral bus (LINE side), but the breaker does not require a neutral on the LOAD side if the tub does not need it.

I'm thinking I'll save a little $ by not pulling a neutral.
Sounds okay.

Also, I was planning to use 1" conduit, but with only 3 wires, maybe 3/4" would be fine? (50amp breaker, 120' of run, total)
The 3/4" would be fine by code, but stick with the 1". For the very marginal price increase it will save you the frustration of a tight pull.
 
 

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