Question about final detail of wiring


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Old 07-15-09, 05:59 PM
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Question about final detail of wiring

Hi, I am very...very amateur at diy and am just trying to finalize a pool electrical install job and have one last (I hope) problem.

The short question: Should GFI circuit breakers automatically trip if a GFI outlet on the line is tripped?

The long explanation: I put in an above ground pool and hired an inexpensive handyman to do the electric. Between the handyman being a bit of a dolt and the inspector being a complete #$%#@^$&$, they have both had to come back to my house over and over to fix numerous problems. To be up to code (gloucester twp. NJ), we ran 2 individual dedicated 20 amp lines. One goes to the filter and one to a convenience outlet that is required and both have GFI outlets. On the last failed inspection, the inspector said the only thing I need to do is replace my existing breakers with 2 cutler hammer 20 amp 120 volt single pole breakers. Being frustrated with the handyman I went and bought them and istalled them myself. Now the inspector said when he comes back, he should be able to tell if it is all wired correctly because if he trips one of the GFI outlets with by the test button, it should automatically trip the breakers.

Everything seems to be wired correctly, but that doesn't happen. I put the black and white wires correctly in each breaker and attached the ground pigtailed from the breaker to the bar in the circuit box. All the power is working and seems fine, but when I test the GFI outlets, they don't trip the breakers. So could there be something I did wrong or was the inspector mistaken when he said the breakers should trip?

I just want to have this right and have it be the last time this guy has to come out to my house. Please help
 
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Old 07-15-09, 06:06 PM
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You do not need GFI breakers and GFI outlets. I think the inspector is incorrect. The Sparky's will be here soon to give you pro advice.
 
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Old 07-15-09, 06:45 PM
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Thanks. While you may be right I didn't mind the GFI outlets and see that they very well may be a good idea outdoors. But when I had to go buy 2 GFI breakers on top of it when they're $55 each and the line is in a 2ft trench I was a bit annoyed and everybody I talk to says the guy is just a miserable human being trying to make life hard for me because he can.
 
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Old 07-15-09, 07:43 PM
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Do you have both a GFI breaker and a GFI receptacle on the same circuit? If so there is no need for one of those.

Class A GFI devices trip between 4-6mA. One may be slightly more sensitive and tripping before the other one.
 
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Old 07-15-09, 08:14 PM
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Yes, 2 dedicated circuits. One for the filter and one for a convenience receptacle that the code requires. They each have a GFI outlet and now a GFI breaker. I definately agree with what you guys are saying that it's not necessary. It seems that this guy is just hastling me for whatever reason. It sucks, but I basically just need to know if tripping the outlets should automatically trip the breaker like the guy said because they're not and if so what I might be able to do about it. Just trying to figure out if I've got it all right to make him happy so I can finish this mess. And just to clarify, nothing is tripping on it's own as if there's a problem. It's just when I press the test button on the outlets like the inspector will do when he comes out.
 
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Old 07-15-09, 08:27 PM
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If the receptacle trips out before the breaker the simulated fault will not be seen by the breaker.

If you had installed a regular receptacle and used the plug-in tester the GFI breaker should trip.
 
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Old 07-15-09, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by danh62103

The short question: Should GFI circuit breakers automatically trip if a GFI outlet on the line is tripped?
On the last failed inspection, the inspector said the only thing I need to do is replace my existing breakers with 2 cutler hammer 20 amp 120 volt single pole breakers. Now the inspector said when he comes back, he should be able to tell if it is all wired correctly because if he trips one of the GFI outlets with by the test button, it should automatically trip the breakers.

All the power is working and seems fine, but when I test the GFI outlets, they don't trip the breakers. So could there be something I did wrong or was the inspector mistaken when he said the breakers should trip?
If I read your post correctly above, you had two standard breakers installed (or a 2 pole. You didn't say why he wanted them changed to singles.) It makes no sense to my why he would expect the breakers to trip on standard breakers when you push the test button on the GFCI receptacle. The test button has nothing to do with overcurrent, which is all a standard breaker does.

Here's my suggestion: Since you already have the GFCI breakers installed and likely can't take them back anyway, I suggest changing the receptacles to standard ones. The circuit is protected by the GFCI breakers so you do not need the redundancy of the outlets. Then buy a GFCI outlet tester like this: Amazon.com: Gardner Bender GFI-501A Ground Fault Receptacle Tester and Circuit Analyzer: Home Improvement You can get them all over for under $10. Stick that into the standard outlet and hit the button on the tester. The breaker should trip. If it doesn't you have something missed wired. (likely you did not connect the neutral to the breaker) When the inspector comes back have, your tester handy to show him it works.

Originally Posted by danh62103
I put in an above ground pool and hired an inexpensive handyman to do the electric.
Another suggestion, don't hire a handyman. Hire a real electrician. I bet if you did you would not have this frustration.
 
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Old 07-15-09, 09:46 PM
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Ok, thanks guys. I think I'm straight now and can hopefully get this all approved and over with.
 
 

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