Electrical Wiring Question

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Old 08-04-09, 01:01 PM
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Electrical Wiring Question

I would like to recede a few outlets flush with the wall, and get rid of the wiremold cable cover. The wiring is for standard receptacles (14G I assume), and will power kitchen appliances and bedroom outlets (not A/C). I don't want to struggle in the tiny attic to get these cables through the wall however. Is it legal for me to run the cables perpendicular through the studs, using metal conduit? We're talking about a maximum length of 6ft.

For the bedroom, the problem is the wall which is brick or concrete. Since I am replacing the floor, is it legal for me to run this line between the floor joists the whole length of the span? Again I'd be using metal conduit, and I can staple the line to the joist itself.

Thanks for any and all insight! I just want to make sure I am not violating any codes, and won't get into any trouble with the condo association. I live in CT if it helps any.

Thank you!
 
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Old 08-04-09, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ukrainskilox View Post
will power kitchen appliances and bedroom outlets (not A/C).
Current code no longer allows kitchen appliances and bedroom receptacles to share a circuit. If you change this circuit you will need to bring it up to modern code which requires separating the circuits and supplying at least two 20A small appliance branch circuits (SABC) to the kitchen and dining areas. The bedroom can still use 15A circuits with #14 wire, however the kitchen cannot. Bedrooms will require arc fault protection.

Is it legal for me to run the cables perpendicular through the studs, using metal conduit?
The metal conduit is not necessary as long as the cable (12/2 or 14/2) is at least 1.25" from the nailing face of the framing. That means in a standard 2x4 wall, you can drill a 7/8" hole through the center and be okay.

I just want to make sure I am not violating any codes, and won't get into any trouble with the condo association. I live in CT if it helps any.
As long as you pull an electrical permit and have the work inspected you should be okay. Most jurisdictions allow homeowners to do the work as long as it passes inspection.
 
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Old 08-05-09, 02:06 PM
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Sorry! I didn't clarify, but the kitchen and bedroom are on separate circuits. Its just those are the two places that circuits run out of the wall. I'm afraid I might also need to do some upgrading, since none of the kitchen outlets are GFCI. I believe they must run off of a single GFCI receptacle in the bathroom... The cables are also pretty old. Probably the original. I'm wondering if I should reuse them (without cutting), or just get new cables and make a junction box behind the cabinets.

Is it necessary for me to run the metal conduit between the floor joists? I noticed a light fixture on the ceiling below, and it was wired with metal conduit as well. Is there a certain distance that the cable must lie below the subfloor?

Thank you very much! I will contact the town hall to see how I can get a permit.
 
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Old 08-05-09, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ukrainskilox View Post
none of the kitchen outlets are GFCI. I believe they must run off of a single GFCI receptacle in the bathroom.
Yes they must be GFCI protected. It was common for older homes to have the bathroom, kitchen, basement, garage and patio receptacles to all be on one GFCI. During a remodel that needs to be upgraded.

The cables are also pretty old. Probably the original. I'm wondering if I should reuse them (without cutting), or just get new cables and make a junction box behind the cabinets.
It's generally best to replace what's exposed when the walls are open. How old are the cables? What materials are they made from? Some of them get very brittle with age and really shouldn't be reused if they have been disturbed.

You cannot place a junction box behind a cabinet. All junctions must be accessible without removing building finish. That means you'll have to open the junction box through the wall and put a blank face plate on it which can be painted to match the wall.

Is it necessary for me to run the metal conduit between the floor joists? I noticed a light fixture on the ceiling below, and it was wired with metal conduit as well. Is there a certain distance that the cable must lie below the subfloor?
Generally metal conduit is not required unless you're in a multistory residential building. Some cities do have stricter amendments to the National code though. When you apply for the permit be sure to ask which revision of the code your city follows and if there are any local amendments.

Technically it only needs to be 1.25" from the nailing face of the joist but on a floor it makes sense to go through the middle to avoid future flooring nails.
 
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Old 08-05-09, 09:50 PM
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Ukrainskilox, I've been following your posts around the forum and I think you need to make clear that you are working in a condominium. It would also help if you could give us the approximate age of the building and when the last major remodel was done if at all possible. Furthermore, how large of a building is it? Rules often change when a building exceeds three stories in height and also when it has shared dwelling units in one building.
 
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Old 08-05-09, 11:36 PM
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My bad! I've posted quite a few posts, and I guess got tired of repeating the details. The building was built in 1953, is 2 stories tall (plus garages below). There are four units per entrance (2 on 1st floor and 2 on 2nd). The building I'm in I believe has 30-40 units total. Last major remodel (which wasn't so major after all ) was in 1985 or so.

The cables are pretty old, and although I haven't touched them yet, the black insulation on them seems pretty flaky. I will definitely replace them in that case. However, am I allowed to install a junction box through the cabinet? That way, the cover for the box would be accessible from inside.

Thanks again for the help!
 
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Old 08-06-09, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ukrainskilox View Post
There are four units per entrance (2 on 1st floor and 2 on 2nd). The building I'm in I believe has 30-40 units total.
That could be a complication for sure. You probably need a licensed electrician to do the work because of the number of units in the building. Typically a licensed electrician is required when the number of units exceeds three or four, although condos are handled differently than multi-unit rentals sometimes. Check with your local building department before proceeding.
 
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Old 08-07-09, 06:37 AM
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Here are the building codes of City of Norwalk if its of any help. I will hopefully put in an application for the permit today..

2003 International Building Code with 2005 Ct. Supplement
2003 International Residential Code with 2005 Ct. Supplement (re-adopted with changes)
2003 International Existing Building Code with 2005 Ct. Supplement
2003 International Mechanical Code with 2005 Ct. Supplement
2003 International Plumbing Code with 2005 Ct. Supplement
2003 International Energy Conservation Code with Ct. Supplement (re-adopted with changes)
ICC/ANSI A117.1-2003 Accessible and Usable Buildings and Facilities
 
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Old 08-07-09, 11:32 AM
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Uookay, never mind. ibpooks you were correct, have to hire an electrician for condos. The inspector actually told me DIY is ONLY allowed in single family detached homes in CT.

No biggie though, I'll thoroughly gut all the junk surface wiring and prep everything ready for cables to be run. Then hopefully my friend is licensed in CT so he can come and do the work. Worst case I'll hire out (shouldn't take longer than 2hrs if the guy is slow). Anyone know what the rate range is so I know what to expect? I'll need about 50ft of cable, so should I pick this up?

Thanks again!
 
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Old 08-07-09, 11:34 AM
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Definitely do not buy any cable before hiring the electrician. The electrician may be able to get a better price or the specific job may require a specific type of cable.
 
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