I've created a problem and need some help.

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  #1  
Old 08-30-09, 07:52 PM
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I've created a problem and need some help.

First time doing any wiring in the home, so bear with me. I'm replacing outlets and switches because the are all very old, and some don't hold the plugs in at all. In a small bedroom I replaced a wall switch, took the top wire off and attached to the top of the new switch, then the bottom....re-installed. On the first outlet (the one controlled by the switch) I noticed the wife bought the wrong one (no ground slot at the bottom) so I removed the old one and took it to the store to get a proper replacement. Once I got back I realized i did not mark the wires, so I had to guess how to re-connect them. I know the two black wires were on the right (brass) and the two white wires were on the left (ground on the bottom left), but was unsure which black or white went to the top or bottom. The outlet works, however the switch now controls the entire room(possibly other rooms for all I know). I've disconnected and reconnected them in every possible way, as far as I can tell, but this continues to happen.

Any ideas what is going on? Any advice would be helpful, and let me know if I left out any important info. Thanks.
 
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Old 08-30-09, 08:20 PM
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You still have the old receptale ? if so look at the brass colour side and see a small tab between the two if they are broken off or not?

The outlet itself I need to know how many pairs and excat numbers of conductors {wires } in each receptale box the reason why I ask due one of them will be switched as you mention there and I know not all the recpectale is switched so you will have to dig little more deeper to find which one is swtiched and what not.

Also while we are still on the same subject how many conductors at the switch and what colours they are that is crictal as well.

Once you give us the color and how many in each one then we will go from there.

Merci,Marc
 
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Old 08-30-09, 09:04 PM
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One other critical point A receptacle does not have a top or bottom or left or right so any description of connections using those terms is meaningless. Connections must be made based on screw color generally black or red to brass and white to silver. Bare or green to green.
I know the two black wires were on the right (brass) and the two white wires were on the left
 
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Old 08-31-09, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
One other critical point A receptacle does not have a top or bottom or left or right so any description of connections using those terms is meaningless. Connections must be made based on screw color generally black or red to brass and white to silver. Bare or green to green.
I wouldnt go that far - the manufacturer can specify TOP on the receptacle (I've seen hospital grade receptacles which have a TOP on the yoke, hot and neutral on top). In that case mounting it ground up is illegal
 
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Old 08-31-09, 07:03 AM
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Danny if the poster is wiring a hospital or any commercial property and has to ask the question he did then he shouldn't even legally be doing the work.

My answer was a DIY answer aimed at a DIYer. Your reply only confuses the matter. The person asking for help needs to observe screw colors. It is a good bet he didn't based on his reply.
 
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Old 08-31-09, 07:19 AM
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You imply receptacles do not have a proper orientation which is not always true.

If the manufacturer prints TOP on the device that must be facing top. I am sorry if you feel this correction to your statement is confusing.
 
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Old 08-31-09, 08:47 AM
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With my user name, and the question asked...I would hope no one asked me to do wiring at a hospital...lol.

I say top and bottom because when mounted in the wall there is a top and bottom....it's not stamped on the outlet that way. Yes black wire to brass screw....white wire to silver screw.

OK so the old one has no tab in between the two posts on each side, and the new one does have a tab. So should I just remove the tab on both sides for this outlet? I assume any outlet where there is no switch controlling it this will not matter.
 
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Old 08-31-09, 11:06 AM
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Normally the tab is only removed on the brass side but if you have to circuits then it would be removed on the silver side also.

Useless trivia: In the archives of most electrical how-to forums you will find long threads on whether the ground hole should be on the top or the bottom.
 
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Old 08-31-09, 03:33 PM
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i like ray2047 so don`t take this the wrong way.

i`ve always assumed the little ground hole on an outlet went towards the bottom,.
i`ve been around alot of crazily wired things (by other people)
and maybe only 3 times was the outlet the "other way"

i guess it is one of those unwritten laws of wireing.

like not sticking your tongue on a wire to see if it`s live.
 
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Old 08-31-09, 04:33 PM
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Thanks for the help guys. Being a novice, I had no idea those tabs were there. It was driving me crazy getting the same result everytime I changed the wire locations.

Every plug in the house, and almost every outlet I've come across has the ground pin at the bottom....so i figured everyone would know what top and bottom meant....my bad.
 
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Old 08-31-09, 06:47 PM
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I've heard that three prong outlets installed right above work surfaces "upside down" with the ground pin hole above the hot and neutral slots provides the benefit of being able to have the ground pin positioned in a way that it will be the first contact in case a butter knife or thin metal tool gets dropped on top of a plug that is loosely plugged in.
This was mentioned more as an anecdote during a home inspection course I took.
And I thought I would needlessly pass it on.
 
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Old 09-01-09, 06:18 AM
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In all the recent reading I have done in prep for my first big wiring experience I have come upon several places that recommend installing recepticles with the ground up for the reason just posted.
 
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