Shallow electrical box

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Old 09-23-09, 03:55 PM
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Shallow electrical box

I need to install outdoor lantern style fixtures on multiple flagstone walls.
The surface is uneven and wiring will have to come in from the sides, instead of from behind. With such an uneven surface, I am trying to find an electrical box that would fit into a typical base plate of a fixture. In other words the box cannot be recessed into the wall.
It is not practical to chip, grind or otherwise mess with the stone to get an even base to mount onto and will have to try and square it up with the box and fixture only.
So, Are there outdoor boxes that are shallow. All I can seem to find are 1 1/2" deep?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
 
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Old 09-23-09, 05:42 PM
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I'm not aware of any outdoor boxes that are less than 1-1/2" deep. The only idea I have is to build some type of base to conceal the box that blends in with the wall. Perhaps a small wooden box you could cover with mortar or some other masonry material.
 
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Old 09-23-09, 05:43 PM
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A 4 inch pancake box will work but a nice gotcha is that they don't really have much room for the conductors at all.

How many cable are you talking about and size as well ??

I know most pancake box typically either half or 5/8 inch deep some can get shallow as 3/4 inch all depending on the number of conductors in the pancake box and that useally a issue if you have more than one cable going in there so let us know excat number we will work from there. unless you have specal cavity you can use then I think there is a item from Arington do have specal box for that useage but I will wait and see what you have in your layout first.

Merci,Marc
 
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Old 09-23-09, 06:21 PM
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Since this is an outdoor installation, a pancake box will not work. Also, a pancake box does not have KO's on the sides. Your stuck with the 1 1/2" weather proof box unless you can wire it from the back and recess the box.

Note: This info is more for the OP and not Marc.
 
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Old 09-23-09, 06:45 PM
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No Problem at all Tolyn.,

I was not thinking about the flagstone ughhh .,,


How big the coach luminaire you are looking for ?

I don't know if this trick will work for you but if you used the 4 inch round WP box and cut a 1/4 inch pexiglass to match the coach base and drill out the holes to fit the WP box ?

Keep in your mind I do not know which type of coach lumianire you will use so something you have to keep in your mind you may have to make a template for it.

Maybe along the way someone may have better idea please do welcome with it.

Merci,Marc
 
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Old 09-23-09, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ibpooks View Post
I'm not aware of any outdoor boxes that are less than 1-1/2" deep. The only idea I have is to build some type of base to conceal the box that blends in with the wall. Perhaps a small wooden box you could cover with mortar or some other masonry material.
Yeah I have already mulled that idea over. It may have to come to that, really would be last resort.

Have not picked the fixture yet, but will be looking for the smallest base fixture that is about 16-18" total height.
 
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Old 09-23-09, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by french277V View Post
A 4 inch pancake box will work but a nice gotcha is that they don't really have much room for the conductors at all.

How many cable are you talking about and size as well ??

I know most pancake box typically either half or 5/8 inch deep some can get shallow as 3/4 inch all depending on the number of conductors in the pancake box and that useally a issue if you have more than one cable going in there so let us know excat number we will work from there. unless you have specal cavity you can use then I think there is a item from Arington do have specal box for that useage but I will wait and see what you have in your layout first.

Merci,Marc
Will be 12/2 in and out of the box.
 
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Old 09-23-09, 07:22 PM
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Thanks for helping me think thru this guys.
Anybody know of any fixtures that have 1 1/2" deep bases?
 
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Old 09-23-09, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by whatifjohn View Post
Will be 12/2 in and out of the box.
Are you surface mounting the light and wiring on the stone surface? If so, you may not run Romex outside or UF where it is subject to damage. (like on the outside of a house) I was under the impression that you were running conduit and coming in the sides.
 
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Old 09-23-09, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Tolyn Ironhand View Post
Are you surface mounting the light and wiring on the stone surface? If so, you may not run Romex outside or UF where it is subject to damage. (like on the outside of a house) I was under the impression that you were running conduit and coming in the sides.
Yes, surface mounting the light on the flagstone and conduit in from the sides. I will have to cut out part of the base of the light if I could get a box in the base.

I'll try and post a picture of the surface tomorrow. It would help show what I am attempting.
 
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Old 09-23-09, 07:37 PM
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Since you are using conduit I suggest using individual #12 THHN/THWN wire which can be found at most big box store on spools. It will be MUCH easier to work with. Remember to run a green insulated ground if you are using PVC conduit or rain tight fittings if using EMT.
 
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Old 09-23-09, 07:47 PM
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Another thought: Since you have not bought the fixtures yet maybe you can find one that hangs from a nipple and use a cover like this: http://www.foxelectricsupply.com/Con...Product/y1.jpg
Or buy a fixture that had a 4" base and mounts right up to the box. Maybe go industrial like this: http://wetdamp.ldpi-inc.com/images/381/381d.gif There are many fixtures out there, you just need to find the right one that will work and you like.
 
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Old 09-23-09, 08:39 PM
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Thanks Tolyn, but my wife would have a heart attack with 4 industrial lights on the front our house...something like this is what I am trying to accomplish
 
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Old 09-24-09, 05:15 AM
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Here's a picture of the stone wall. Maybe this will help show the issue better. I have to do 4 of these.


 
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Old 01-31-10, 08:04 PM
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Ok, its been awhile, but I did finish my project. Used a 3 inch pancake box and custom fit each bracket for 4 of them. Cut and ground stone for flat base plate. Ended up drilling thru stone and block for 12/2 feed.
I would never take on a cut and grind project like this again. Some rock was easy, other parts were near impossible. Melted 3 tapcon bits when drilling for one of the boxes.
 
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Old 02-01-10, 07:20 AM
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Looks to me like you did a VERY nice job!! Well done!!!
You deserve a Beer 4U2 Thanks for letting us know how it turned out
 
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Old 02-01-10, 08:32 AM
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Looks very good. I don't think a mason could have done that well when it was first put up.
 
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