Opinions on a sub panel installation and other

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Old 10-11-09, 06:15 AM
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Opinions on a sub panel installation and other

First off hello! New here.

Here is some pictures of my service panels.

I have a feeling something is wrong with how the service panel in my detached garage is wired.











Wires are detached in my garage as I am studing the walls.

Not sure about the bonding in the sub panel either.

Also what is the proper depth for the PVC conduit?
 
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Old 10-11-09, 08:07 AM
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The sticky about sub panels at the top post is a great resource.

It looks ok except for a few things. At your sub panel you need to remove the strip that connects the ground bar to the neutral bar. Your missing the neutral wire. Need to run one of those blacks again, put white tape around it on both ends and connect it to the largest screw in the right bar. Make sure the ground wire at the sub panel does not run back to the main panel. it needs to be grounded in the earth.

Also make sure that ground rod is six feet in the ground. According to the NEC you need to have Schedule 80 PVC 24" in the ground. Below that requires Underground Feeder Cable and you don't need PVC. Not sure of the diameter.
 
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Old 10-11-09, 08:49 AM
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There are few items that need to be addressed here.,

The bare conductor is only used for grounding purose only and you will have to buy a grounding bussbar.

You will need to buy netual conductor the same size as the hot conductors is.

You will need two ground rods with #6 bare conductor

Remove green screw that is the bonding screw that will you need to take it off due it is a subpanel.

All the subpanels required 4 conductor anyway due 2008 NEC code is very strict with it

What size hot conductor you are running now ?

For PVC burial typically 24 inches in my area it useally little more deeper than that but some area allow 18 inches so check that one.

Here the link to read up with the details for subpanel and scroll down to 4 wire feeder

http://forum.doityourself.com/electr...-drawings.html


That will give you the idea how it should be done anyway.

Merci,Marc
 
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Old 10-11-09, 09:06 AM
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you are correct, something is missing

i got a feeling that stripped wire is in fact a nuetral, as if it's a ground wire it appears oversized for a ground ( how big amp wise is the subpanel? ), if it is a ground you have two options,

have separate ground bus kit ( with a lug to accomodate the ground wire ) installed and land the ground on that, and then pull in a same size conductor wire as the 2 black feeder wires and tape it white and land it on the neutral lug on the top left of the subpanel and keep the jumper intact, or like the other poster said remove the neutral bus jumper and land the neutral on the other side ( of course you need a lug that works with the bar to accomodate the neutral wire size )

since it's a subpanel all ground and neutrals must be separated and not bonded like the main service panel.

do you have a photo of how he feeders are landed ( on a breaker ) inside the main service panel as , from what i can tell it's photo #3 with the top left 2 pole breaker feeding the sub panel, and it probably a 100 amp feed.

either way you are missing one wire
 
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Old 10-11-09, 03:48 PM
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Garage Service

Is the overhead service to the garage existing? Or was it installed new? They make a four wire overhead service cable and you will likely need one. If you replace it, then don't try to cut the bare wire with cable cutters. It has a steel messenger in the center and will damage regular cable cutters. You can use a hack saw. Separate the neutral and grounds in the garage. There is likely a screw that goes through the current neutral bus to the panel. Remove this and install a separate ground kit. Are you thinking about running the service underground in PVC? If so, then how far is the run?
 
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Old 10-11-09, 07:36 PM
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Wire is #2 copper run underground in 1-1/2" PVC conduit (grey stuff). This is already barried in place. Wanted to make sure it was deep enough.

The three wires (Two black and stranded go into a insulated wire together once into the PVC)

The big stranded wire runs back to the main service panel. You can see where it attaches on the right bus bar. (Its wound much tighter so it looks like thinner wire)

I have seperate bare copper wire for a ground rod that will be drove into the ground so the sub is not showing that yet. Can't remember the size will check tommorow. Do I need to drive two? Also what size as I have found 1/2" and 5/8".

Right now there is a 60AMP breaker for the sub panel. Down the road I may pull it and install a 100 amp. (Presuming #2 is enough for 100 amp.)

The service entrance in the picture is for the house to the main service panel. Not on the garage.

So do I remove the whole bar that connect the bus bars in the sub panel or just the green screws? This un-bonds it I presume.

Again thank you!
 
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Old 10-11-09, 10:40 PM
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The three wires (Two black and stranded go into a insulated wire together once into the PVC)
Do you mean cable?


........................
 
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Old 10-12-09, 05:50 AM
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Yes they go into the same sheathing I presume would be the right word.
 
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Old 10-12-09, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ssgtcarroll View Post
Yes they go into the same sheathing I presume would be the right word.
Cable can not be run in conduit except for short lengths of conduit for protection. You need four wires not three. You need to remove the cable and pull 4 THWN wires. For 100a three #3 and one green or bare #8. The ground to a bonded ground bar. If you use black for the neutral also it will need to be remarked white at both ends with tape, marker pen, or paint.
 
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Old 10-12-09, 07:39 AM
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Ok that takes care of my wirering problem. Thank you

I guess the last thing I need to know is how many grounding rods off the garage sub panel? and what size rod?
 
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Old 10-12-09, 07:47 AM
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Also is this up to NEC 2008 as well?

http://media8.dropshots.com/photos/4...905/212354.jpg
 
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Old 10-12-09, 11:42 AM
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ground rods: Use 5/8" x 8' ground rods, available in the electrical aisle at the home store. Drive two rods, 6' apart, flush or slightly below grade. Put a brass acorn clamp on each rod and run a bare #6 copper wire from the acorn clamps to the ground bar in the panel.

NEC 2008: That diagram looks okay for 2008 code as well as 2005.
 
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Old 10-13-09, 05:31 PM
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Heres what I plan to do. I know its a little more then I need but I feel it will give me a lot of room down the road.

My run is about 67Ft...

Qty. 2. #2 Copper Stranded THWN Black 75FT
Qty. 1 #2 Copper Stranded THWN White 75FT
Qty. 1 #6 Copper Stranded THWN Green 75FT

2 Conduit No lower then 24" (Depends what my borrow/state says, will call) All the way for the Main panel to the sub.

#6 Copper to Qty. 2 5/8 Ground Rods 6' Apart. (Maybe through small conduit out of the sub into the ground, just to be extra clean.)

Unbond Nuetral and ground bus bar.

Bond ground bus bar with panel.

Unbond Nuetral bus bar from panel.

Would this put me with/beyond current code?

Also...where is all this ground wire connecting to? All this to the ground bus bar? Should one connect directly to the box?

Is there a particular order? (One ground rods wire top of bar, one at the bottom....service panel to sub ground in the middle?)

Are permits normaly required to repair incorrectly ran wire? (I will ask borrow but was curious)

I can kinda presume alot of this but maybe this will help put everything in black and white for anyone searching?

Thanks guys!
 
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Old 10-13-09, 06:04 PM
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Sounds good. Ground wire goes to ground bar. Ground wire is single continuous wire. It goes through the acorn clamp on the first ground rod and on to the second.
 
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