code wiring

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Old 01-27-10, 09:06 AM
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code wiring

in the western US most contractors would tend to use 12 awg romex for a new house...
no yes ??
 
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Old 01-27-10, 09:54 AM
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Non-metallic cable, commonly called Romex, is a NEC recognized method and could be used anywhere in the country. Only certain areas, Chicago and NYC, prohibit its use.

As far as the gauge of the wire #12 would be needed for 20 amp circuits. No. 14 wire is still recognized for 15 amp circuits.
 
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Old 01-27-10, 09:54 AM
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That would be generally correct for circuits supplying receptacles in the kitchen, bath, laundry and a few other areas. Most other general-purpose circuits in the home can be supplied with #14 cable and 15A breakers by code.
 
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Old 01-27-10, 10:20 AM
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Way way back in time when I was doing new construction of homes (don't ask how far back ), the name of the game was "lowest cost" and 14 gauge wire everywhere.

The idea was if the cost of materials is less expensive, your profits are higher. So they were not about to install 12 gauge unless they had to!

And the cheapest outlets/switches as well.

I don't think this basic idea has changed any. The codes have and 12 gauge wire is now required in certain areas.

Anyway I think the only way to find out the answer to this question would be by looking at sales figures of 12 ga. vs 14 ga. romex wire over the past 10 years.

I would think that homeowners would mainly buy from hardware and home improvement stores. And electricians from an electrical supply.

Then you could separate the homeowner purchases from electrical contractors.
 
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Old 01-27-10, 11:08 AM
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Short answer, no.

14 gauge/15 amp circuits are used all the time by contractors wiring houses in the areas of the home where it is not required to have a 20 amp circuit. There is nothing wrong with using #14 if the circuit is planed correctly.
 
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Old 01-27-10, 07:25 PM
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Florida does not allow 14 ga. wire.
 
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Old 01-27-10, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bgbill View Post
Florida does not allow 14 ga. wire.
The information below seams to suggest that your information is not correct. It could be a city requirement, but not the whole state.

The end result of this meeting was that the Florida Electrical TAC voted 8-1, Chair not voting, to recommend to the Florida Building Commission that the 2008 edition of the National Electrical CodeŽ be adopted without amendment.
This information was found on the NEMA site here: NEMA - Code Alert: Florida, 04 February 2009
 
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Old 01-27-10, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Tolyn Ironhand View Post
The information below seams to suggest that your information is not correct. It could be a city requirement, but not the whole state.



This information was found on the NEMA site here: NEMA - Code Alert: Florida, 04 February 2009
Could be the counties I work in, in Pasco county they allowed 14 ga for short period of time, Pinellas and Hillsborough county never allowed it afaik.

There is no reason to run 14 ga, there is hardly any difference in cost.

As a contractor, I would not allow any of my subs to use 14 ga.
 
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Old 01-27-10, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by bgbill View Post
Could be the counties I work in, in Pasco county they allowed 14 ga for short period of time, Pinellas and Hillsborough county never allowed it afaik.

There is no reason to run 14 ga, there is hardly any difference in cost.

As a contractor, I would not allow any of my subs to use 14 ga.
Given how most lighting circuits are so lightly loaded using #12 would be a waste IMO.

Box fill becomes an issue with #12 faster than #14 too.
 
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Old 01-28-10, 07:21 AM
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You also save in labor because #14 is easier to work with. I would rather run more lightly loaded #14 circuits then run less #12 circuits. IMO it is not about cost.

BTW - in commercial jobs we only run #12.
 
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Old 01-28-10, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Tolyn Ironhand View Post
I would rather run more lightly loaded #14 circuits then run less #12 circuits. IMO it is not about cost.
But thats what you have journeymen for though, right? SO they can muscle that #12 stuff while you play in the box? ...lol
 
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Old 01-28-10, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Tolyn Ironhand View Post
You also save in labor because #14 is easier to work with. I would rather run more lightly loaded #14 circuits then run less #12 circuits. IMO it is not about cost.

BTW - in commercial jobs we only run #12.


I have done my share of electrical work and too be honest, I can't see how running 14 ga is going to save much labor, 12 ga is not difficult to work with.

You don't use romex in commercial jobs do you?
 
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Old 01-28-10, 11:52 AM
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Wiring recessed-fixtures with #12 is a---- B**** considering the undersized size of the splice-boxes on them. Also,the spectacle of #12 connecting to #18 , when a properly-sized ( in terms of # of outlets ) #14 circuit is perfectly safe for liting -circuits.

Better to have #18 fixture wires protected by a 15 amp CB instead of a 20.
 
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Old 01-29-10, 09:27 AM
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In general practice commercial wiring is done with 20 amp circuits and 12 awg wire, however I dont believe the code states any where that you cant run a 15 amp circuit. In residential wiring theres nothing wrong with 14 awg wiring where the code allows it, and when you have multiple cables entering a box its definitely easier to handle, as far as cost I suppose one to 10 houses wont make much of a difference but if your estimating a housing devolopment I would bet the difference is considerable.:Peeping On U2:
 
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Old 02-10-10, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by bgbill View Post
I have done my share of electrical work and too be honest, I can't see how running 14 ga is going to save much labor, 12 ga is not difficult to work with.

You don't use romex in commercial jobs do you?
Yes, sometimes when code allows it. To not use romex in commercial jobs when the code allows it makes one not very competitive.
 
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Old 02-10-10, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by bgbill View Post
I have done my share of electrical work and too be honest, I can't see how running 14 ga is going to save much labor, 12 ga is not difficult to work with.

You don't use romex in commercial jobs do you?
We don't run romex in commercial jobs because 99.9% of the jobs you can't. Romex is not rated for plenum ceilings and may not be run where exposed. It must be covered with a 15 min. fire rated covering.
 
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Old 02-11-10, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Road King View Post
In general practice commercial wiring is done with 20 amp circuits and 12 awg wire, however I dont believe the code states any where that you cant run a 15 amp circuit.
That's correct -- 15A are allowed, but usually less practical in a commercial setting. Mostly due to the actual use of heavier loads and longer distances from panel to outlet. In fact 20A circuits are often pulled with #10 simply because of greater distance.

When you're dealing with solid wire (Romex), #14 definitely makes a difference on lighting circuits when you have a bunch of N-way switches and dimmers in multigang boxes. Cheaper wire, easier to make up, easier to fold back, easier to mount dimmers, no decrease in performance.

You don't use romex in commercial jobs do you?
Depends on the type of construction. "Commercial" is a pretty wide range of building types, and some do allow romex.
 
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Old 02-11-10, 02:03 PM
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Even with copper prices down some, there is still $30 or so difference in the price of a 250' box of 12/2 vs 14/2. That is probably enough incentive to use the 14 ga where appropriate and allowed.
 
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Old 02-11-10, 05:17 PM
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Copper prices have been rising for several months. I bought a spool of #12 stranded for $30 about six months ago and it is $45 now.
 
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Old 02-11-10, 08:04 PM
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I also prefer MC and pipe jobs, but I also see 2 story motels and many small offices and commercial retail buildings with wood frame construction, ducted returns and romex wiring, all are done by NEC. I looked at a fire job in one apartment unit in a high rise public housing building about a year ago. It was about 35 to 40 years old. I was surprised to see it was wired with aluminum romex. I am not so sure romex was code in a high rise back then, but it must have been. Today it would have to be MC and pipe.
 
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Old 02-12-10, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by CasualJoe View Post
looked at a fire job...wired with aluminum romex.
Surprised to see those two together...
 
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